Bitcoin Mempool Congestion, Lightning To The Rescue | Britcoiners by CoinCorner #88

Join Danny, Molly, and Dave for this weeks ramblings. Topics this week include: Federal Reserve further raise interest rates, Montana passes Bitcoin bill, Cash App Bitcoin revenue tops $2B in Q1, Binance enable Lightning Network withdrawals to clear backlog, Ordinal inscriptions nearly double a week, 700,000 households missed mortgage payment or rent in the last month, Bitcoin price, and Danny and Dave have been orange pilling independent financial advisers. A video version of this episode is available on our YouTube channel: This episode is sponsored by CoinCorner ( - A global leader in Bitcoin and Lightning services.

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[Music] I'm starting back Dave cheers Molly great to be back this is take two already let's let's back on with Danny's agenda agenda Federal Reserve raising interest rates Montana and the Bitcoin bills cash up revenue generated in q1 finance and lightning Lichtenstein prime minister talking Bitcoin ordinals which I'm sure everyone's aware of over the last week and 700 000 households missed mortgage payment or rent in the last month I don't know how I missed that it just came out this morning I think slightly worrying I've also bought in Gladstone's book oh show and tell them for the podcast book club we can all do that no one's done yeah I didn't know about this does it have an audio version I doubt it just [ __ ] no though no show me I'll just give you a little summary of it when I've read it that's copy so you just brought in to show it so we've gotten straight from reading it tonight it's only like 120 Pages honestly 120 Pages I'll read it tonight Molly rated some I'm gonna buy next week we'll all have read it no no you undresserate how slow I read 120 Pages yeah I'm an audio person I can't I don't have the attention span for a book are you on Julie lingo well Dave's really attention respond for another job do you linger is it not dueling do you rolling it do you owe lingers Mikey Dewey lingo I always offered duo duo lingo yeah anyway chewy lingo is one on the app it's one of the best gamified apps I haven't seen you should really take hints from it it's brilliant I used to use it Matt is your kid on it no put him on it you will be amazed how big how quickly the kids are picking up with Julie lingo nice do we lingo money seven-year-old honestly flew it in German after two weeks she lost nothing last night she wrote out 20 German words 20 English words the equivalent English words on a whiteboard I couldn't do that I don't know 20 words but she's actually dominating it oh they do pick it'll quit them no that's what I thought you said that's what I'm saying it so far first 30 seconds you've come on Shield the book Shield Duolingo shill a monster there anything else you want to show I don't know do you have affiliate commission for all these things we'll get back to the agenda agenda sorry right no Zach bring it back you don't normally drink a Monster but it was just hanging around yeah it doesn't throw at me as a sort of you drink no a late night Laura come up come on but I don't think if that's any better you know better than me get all the sweeteners up probably my Sparta you know imagine it is energetics I've never it's yeah it's the sweetener that I use but it's a bad fear and then you know ignorances cross your fingers have you seen the color of them as well in your interests house yeah are they yeah like a luminous yellow or greeny colors you'll see it when it comes out it's not the color of Health now okay that's what I think you guys to be on board with a monster it's like toxic like you imagine like a cartoon with toxic it's like like river running down like real luminous gluten so but sugar though I'll just keep hanging on to that Sugar's probably better that's amazing sorry agendas um I think we don't feel down here it's just really well let's Hammer this out come on let's wait for his act together this is actually quite high energy for you absolutely wired fed reserving uh sorry fed uh raising the interest rates another 25 bips they didn't raise last quarter did they oh no they did they kept on target 20 25 bips 25 this it's every month so last this quarterly if seven month players say yeah I think so oh yeah it's like the last phrase that we were talking about on this pod was the one just after um some of the banks I think it was Silicon Valley Bank crashed and they go it was because of the bond market yeah so there was Thor that they wouldn't raise on that particular period of time because to stabilize that bond market and raise again because inflation is the biggest problem so since it's gone up half a percent again yeah and since that banking crisis so I think kids have banks have looked at their Bond exposure and still dying who's dying now two last week and then there's small and the engine like in terms of the bubble yeah yeah showing the backs of risk and somebody else shared you might show the different one wrong you've got in a habit of sharing things maybe five minutes after Danny a chair pay attention on the same chat yeah all right I get lost in all in the millions blame the greatest things he sent through um so yeah just again keep an eye on it um it's kind of we get I don't know what we're actually at you know my key fact Checkers what the fed's interest rate is currently the link to that there's that stat on CNBC today about 48 of Americans is it is that in here uh it was it was 48 it was kind of linked isn't it 48 of um 48 of adults yeah worried about leaving their money at a bank yeah so it's kind of something like you can see why you can like so these interest rates are going up bond market might affect and people are getting worried about Holdings you should never be worried about that should you it's a fundamental you shouldn't well yeah obviously it depends the hate surveys but um surveys are always I don't know that look at the detail of that 48 was it done off 100 people he was stood outside the bank trying to withdraw them um yeah so it's hard to always tell with them sort of surveys but yeah you're right you shouldn't have to worry about that but obviously that is a yeah it's always been thinking if the banks are playing a trust game then they're losing right now yeah by the way this this will be that noise of that Lorry outside will be a test for the AI wouldn't it oh yeah so Mikey this this week is testing AI how would you describe it Mike AI this is like AI audio enhancement yeah I want to enhances um Market doesn't have to spend hours editing the levels when we're like making noises the windows are open and Adobe have got this enhancement that should just do it straight away and literally save Mikey hours remove the background noise yeah yeah this is gonna either sound really great or really smooth but either way we can display mic yeah either way the broadcast is going out I'd say one of the comments that people make most is are sound quality issues yeah whether it's people coughing or making noises that's just natural can't edit out a cough can you no Mikey's been trying hasn't he yeah spent weeks doing it yeah yeah I'll learn it's just background yeah yeah I just get picked up as nonsense you don't need to listen to that why noise but Adobe absolutely monopolizing some creative it's resources I'm not big Adobe fan it's pretty impressive though it's really improved they've just bought somebody I think to do yeah but now it's under their umbrella isn't it yeah anyway feds yeah the court so the current rate it's weird so it says it's five percent to 5.25 is that normally do they normally give a range no they shouldn't do that I'll be here soon just gone to Five Points so it must have gone from five to five point two five for that case um so yeah how much further was it go they're trying to obviously combat inflation but um I don't know how good of a job they're doing at the minute even this last month or two to be honest the inflation's not really seeing much talk of it to be honest but no the UK have been distracted by that coronation CPI of course there's no no cost of living no those guys don't seem worried about it no they really don't know if they're laying it on everyone else is struggling to buy a loaf of bread and I think we're talking about which Crown he's gonna wear share it out guys I did send me some great memes going around with his uh did I send the one with the balloon on yeah the balloon on his crown instead AI actually stepped it up I saw a knitted one that was a good isn't it on yeah there's quite a few yeah I think it's good it's probably a bad time for it isn't it just it's not the best the GG scales through the roof ever there's you know a lot more poor people in the wealthy very wealthy in terms of asset holding I saw the Liverpool football match wasn't build their Boo in the group they booed very loudly but during the national anthem for it yeah I think it's like it's one of those divided things though because also at the same time it brings everybody like I'm not I can give a [ __ ] about the worlds but yeah my understanding is it also does create quite a community and it's like oh everybody gets together for it and there's a little bit of positivity it's a nice it's it's for me it's mad and watch it but boils down to the ROI of propping up an institution like that first spoken like a true account okay 320 million pounds a year to keep that institution going yeah my wife isn't like they do a lot for Charities but you could just give that 320 million to the Charities and then it's a lot of Tourism to get a lot of people in but that's always so I'm gonna go and see the king they just be booking pass and that won't change that's always the argument there's nothing for the tourism because they bring a lot of Tourism into the country this isn't an agenda point but we've gone but I think I think Bitcoin is almost anti-establishment and the Royal is they've established the ultimate establishment so I'd say I would say if you were to survey bitcoiners most wouldn't be royal I think it's interesting though because it depends on the country and the Royals in some ways as well well some of them don't have a monarch really some of them have a real family but they don't have the Monarch so they don't actually get any money from the state and then some of them actually are businessmen and build companies and build businesses our royal family no offense to them that just do charitable work is probably the thing they do take your answer through some bad press they look very spoiled and yeah yeah they're not really because they all get money from the the people the public um and from the government and so they are paid that obviously the argument is that they're bringing the tourism for that um but outside of them just being the royal family and just being themselves I don't really know I have a hard time what they do a hard time thinking whether they're actually necessary well they go off into the charity things done that's what I'm saying there is families actually do so is that the best way to do any charity thing I don't know yeah Royal involved do you think I don't know enough to have a big enough opinion on it to be honest I think so your your opinion on the royal family is neutral I just don't have an opinion yeah I think it was oh thanks that's the British who've gone in for his MBE I think the British rule I think is all around the world do all of the different inputs and different ways and different things of operating and running don't they um and I think ours I don't know many others around I'm sure there will be all the ones around the world which are the ones have an actual Monarch and have get money from the government and don't do anything the Dutch one's quite popular do you think there's a Dutch Royal Family do they have I think they're popular and the popularity do they have then I'm going to see a music suggest that might be Europe's most popular Denise royal family is it is a monarch I'm using the right terms yeah which means they have some sort of power and control that they get money from the government they do they get money from the government but they're not allowed any sort of well has power but yeah that's the remain neutral they don't have to though they do have to you know by law so we had a civil war about no they're allowed to create and break laws and stuff it goes through the bloody thingy when the new law the current FCA that's going through it has to go through the sign off from the King they have to sign them off some possibly not sign the place to sign it off he can no well otherwise what's the point in pointing through purely ceremonial which is ridiculous just don't waste the time there are only ceremonials don't waste the time money and resource just putting through exactly that's the whole point I don't know don't know enough of that okay and crack Checkers Mikey we're talking gibberish yeah let's get on to bitcoin sorry this is [ __ ] with the Dutch Royal family's approval rating I think it's from 2020 to now it's dropped from 74 to 58 everyone's going against the Royals it's the Dutch Royal Family's popularity it's the covid-19 restrictions because they were quite bad in the Netherlands weren't there as well so maybe that's well and they've blamed the Royals oh well maybe there's blooming today in general no royal families power anymore in your in your anyway yeah sorry Bitcoin that was a decent tangent it's a hell of a tangent state so Montana U.S uh state of Montana has passed a bill to protect Bitcoin mining and the bit I was more interested in this is making Bitcoin payments tax-free it's finally this is we spoke about this like a year ago is it something like that on on the podcast um and how they need to make especially in the US and I think in the UK as well they're gonna have to make Bitcoin payments for goods and services tax free so you don't pay capital gain stocks on it um that muscle Montana of the first state let's come forward and do this in the US which is good um we're okay in the Isle of Man because we don't have capital gain Stacks so we don't have to pay it anyway um but to make Bitcoin a real payment method I guess um for goods and services this is gonna have to happen um there is talk was it California we're talking about under 300 or under 500 or something is tax-free as well this one as far as malware is just if you're paying for good and service but fact Checkers Mikey how'd they Define an as a payment then so you in if you're paying like a transaction buying a good or service here I think paying for a service or buying a good so you're not just selling it for him but from an investment perspective right so you're actually making a payment for something Montana quite Progressive when it comes to bitcoin because I've not read that don't recall them being at the Forefront of Bitcoin that's the first I can recall them being mentioned I was actually the proof it's paying for a good service though improve transactional Mikey ask our AI well it is interesting stuff it's a good step yeah how I would encourage that one it needs to happen I think if it goes through the end of the day if you go and buy some I mean it should be quite easy to prove you're going buying products you've got products but if you've got like two standards where the payments is tax free but buying and selling Bitcoin isn't tax-free but you'd have to just have to prove one of the other unless you sell it to an individual you'd sell an exchange for example so like with ourself you wouldn't send it out to make a payment you'd sell it for the Fiat so at that point you can see on your report that you've unless you do peer-to-peer in person with someone which I suppose it's very very few and far between these days anyway and that would be the way to get around the tax and that's respect you buy something or you sell some and someone gives you cash and you would claim that you bought a TV off or something but I mean that's like here your general Dodger dealers these days I might do stuff like that um I can't imagine there's going to be few and far between I think they're really interesting that see how that develops yeah hopefully the states follow suit and this is similar has to happen in the UK has happened in Europe I think needs to happen to make it um more widely used I was always under the the hope that Capital game would become too burdensome in the UK for a transactional level so like everyone reporting their pools yeah movement in their pools to for the capital gain I think and it just been hundreds of pages yeah which is where I eventually see it as big on adoption lightning adoption grows government turn around say well other resources deal with this yeah or which they will won't have eventually if it is widely used the problem is getting to that point although it's a chicken and egg it won't get widely used until the capital gains dropped yeah but you don't know if they've got the resources at the moment to do couple games so they just give it lip service because it's self-reported yeah and then they just investigate as a sample which I think they often do so the larger ones so the smaller ones would be irrelevant hmm but yeah it'd be nice to see this how it plays out and again if you've got the details of the the bill is titled uh an act generally revising cryptocurrency laws prohibiting discriminatory digital asset mining utility rates prohibiting Local Government powers related to digital asset Mining and prohibiting taxation on the crypto of cryptocurrency as a payment method so that's the title yeah of the bill a bit wordy okay a men's sections Blues okay um yeah it just says as cryptocurrency asset payment so it doesn't list down it's in mining protection in there as well yeah that wasn't enough did read the album just kind of skipped over that a little bit positive and useful yeah it's good more positive news cash app uh saying the revenue top two billion dollars for the first war this year Bitcoin sales now they report Revenue we have this conversation all the time don't we they report Revenue as basically that's their volume then turnover I call it turnover um everyone seems to call it different these days especially when it comes to us UK and further field so are they Banning numbers then a little bit uh it's basically you'd have to see the underlying Revenue it's two billion dollars volume in the first three months of the year uh which is still big I think it's that I assume it's their biggest today is it just clarifying I'm starting to come around to Jack Dorsey it's took you long enough I've never had a you know I've always been quiet I was a Twitter book that I read and that was a bit about that recently yeah but what in that you thought Jack's all right I understood what he went through as a Founder I think as a company in this different perspective issues you go through yeah I've been through a lot of similar stuff that he did okay so I think yeah you you kind of appreciate it and you kind of appreciate in retrospect what he was doing into it now that elon's there and it it kind of like messed it up it's to me anyway with the Elon thing as well so I clicked onto the the he took her again I need my key to Fat Checkers on this busy today and you are saving all that time on the AI let's keep heart checking yeah he took so he took a massive loan for the acquisition of Twitter didn't he Elon and that loan to uh repay that loan back effectively um is a billion dollars a year in I'm not sure if that's an interest or that's the the loans he has to pay back a billion dollars a year or something like that okay um which is probably why he's having to monetize it so heavily now to make the revenue to pay that back because he's not only having to pay the loan back he doesn't obviously run the other head to the business and otherwise he's gonna have to raise more money towards the end of the year if we can't make that which is why he's pushing heavy on this Revenue side of things he has eight percent staff down there which is one of the I think I was like the biggest overhead here yeah still losing a lot of money by that sounds a drop off in performance to say that's how many stuff no it's just the new stuff is introduced is terrible that's destroying it in my head we're talking about Jack Dorsey not Elon I know but it's the comparable Sarah from the same company but the um I mean you saw what did we talk about this already with the business fee we talked about it the other week I've still not bought to oblivious shocking you you should probably get it you have more Bots than anyone it doesn't help Arts it's well health I know I see my two he's getting retweeted by the same person really old ones and then that person changes into Molly oh that seems to be the attack thing so you just see all right and you just know all right this one this person's gonna turn into a Molly or Danny any minute eventually yeah I'm just pleased with the retweet yeah just certainly won't report it but the blue deadly doesn't help for bombs his Bots have got worse if anything but I always thought like Jack Dorsey probably got lucky with twist in terms of how successful the timing of when that company was launched and yeah how the internet was progressing and other social media platforms yeah and then to have cash app as well in terms of it now looks extremely successful with timing as well with that because he went into swear I'll be lucky when as often right yeah it's by the parent company it's like block work because now apparently they've rebranded to once a box it's Square was originally like a point of sale device for merchants and then they brought cash app is like the b2c side of the business so for consumers like PayPal Style um and that then added Bitcoin yeah um but he just I think he just jumps in at the right time as well he was kicked out of Twitter um while he was kicked out he went and started square and started to build that and that starts to take off and then they brought him back for Twitter afterwards no that was it wasn't it yeah put so then he ended up with two that he was trying to run um but yeah he obviously had the cash and the connections from Twitter to then go and do square and Bill um money and he can't afford a little haircut I can't I usually just tied up with Equity yeah that's why he quits like me sorry Mike have you got any Factor you're right I can't the cash up one sorry I mean I can't find any precise figures for um recent quarters but the Elon stuff um what was it year after how much was in the his long-term agreement yep yeah so it's 6.5 billion Term Loan uh a us uh 0.5 billion revolving credit facility plus two Bridge loans totaling 6 billion from investment banks that will eventually be taken out from high yield bonds so he's got 12 billion so that's like that works out to be 13 billion total um what do you have to pay back each year on that is it like a billion dollars a year or something imagine having the power just to borrow 12 or 13 billion 13 billion we know who I am do you need a credit line do you know try and check let's see if we can get uh anyway with that's great digressed again but anyway cash up good guys we think in the space yes we like it yeah yeah um doing some good stuff are we doing any bit to him moment yeah I have enough huh hearing that um are we not allowed to divulge current ongoing no they also Branch out into like this block isn't it now is Maryland and then they've got all the other subsidiaries like the TBD and um all that sort of side that there Branch off into so you end up communicating with people who crossing over and all sorts of them um between square cash app TBD and TBD as like three or four have we talked about the great conversations we've been having with the local ifas yet no their Beach um so line in issues over the weekend um I wasn't lighting issue so it was Bitcoin issues sorry lightning save the day Bitcoin backlogs it's because I'm reading lightning uh binance tweeted saying they were disabling Bitcoin withdrawals and they were going to fix the issue they did that twice an incredible word in yeah and they're going to fix the issue which one really for them to fix it yeah don't worry guys I'm here to fix it um the feature is quite entertaining I think it was just bad wording on their behalf uh obviously that's happened which comes on to the next one and because of ordinals and what's happened with the ordinals um can I just ask you one question why do you think don't say like I don't want a question why would they like so become withdrawals from binance menpool went up so fees were through the roof nothing was getting into the blocks right so no sense of going out yep why would they and they're just putting a stop on withdrawals so they don't have a big is it to manage people's expectations you think I so there's a couple of reasons I guess you could think or why they've done it so for one is they could think the um the network is congested so how do we help the network a little bit and that's disable Bitcoin withdrawals during binance fee I am but I'll I'll I don't believe this is what happened um but this is what could have happened uh and they would then say Right freeze Bitcoin rules because they do put a lot on the network um nothing in comparison to I guess what's gone out over the weekend um and last week but they could have done that um which would then push people onto all the coins and they can withdraw their other coins if they will withdraw so it just kind of frees a little bit of um pressure up I guess from binance withdrawing um however I think it was probably more the fact that the amount they were then ended up almost like to pay was probably they hadn't moved things around in their wallets because what they did just after that was there was about 30 of their Bitcoin moved the their cold storage or 30 of their Holdings from when their wallets moved and people were saying people are withdrawing like 30 of the Bitcoins they hold have been withdrawn which is massive massive portion um it was actually they did then I think state that this was then moving it to another wallet so they were moving it so there's a couple of it could have been like genuine technical issues the member of being so Force crashed their servers and crashed their wallets and all of a sudden they've used the backlog as an excuse while they picked the servers up and get going again so it could have been like a genuine technical issue and which would then make sense for why they moved 30 because they might move that to them a new wallet that yeah a new wallet that's a hot wallet that they could then use to process it because their other ones fell over because then them pool backlog killed it and they couldn't have got that top up across with them because they couldn't access maybe the other um the other wallets that had load in may have fell over so they couldn't do anything with them and they couldn't process withdrawals um we know about from 2017. and when the menpool uh Rose quite like to 180 000 transactions were at 420 at the minute so you can see the scale difference um we were crashing oh while it was crashing lots of other peoples was crashing at the time because the mempool was destroying the ram taking up a lot of ram space and it was um crippling it there's been lots of improvements in Bitcoin since then I think everyone's more prepared um but I wouldn't Point past them that being the issue and it was just an excuse to like give us time to set a new server up certainly wallet up and get this going again while we picked things up and then moved that Bitcoin to top up a new fresh hot water that they could get going again um would make sense as to what actually happened there um it could have been that also I think I did see somebody speculating on that as well and saying the fee that the customers are paying was not Dynamic so they couldn't update easily so they would then took it down while they sorted out updating it so they didn't lose money on the withdrawals because that's pay so much for withdrawals compared to what they were charging the customer so they had to then do that before they found that they were losing a lot of money on the sentence and yeah which would have been a very simple explanation um but I in my head it's probably the the server I'm guessing maybe their wallets couldn't handle the mempool do you think it's they were racist questions about Bitcoin resilience if although the like the men pool is a bigger than it's been for an awful long time it has caused some major exchanges to stop withdrawals so it's only that it was only five it was only them that's what I mean the biggest right yeah well because that's why I'm saying that I'm not sure I'm assuming it's a technical issue like that because nobody else paused it we haven't paused it cracking the deposit coinbase didn't pause it nobody's paused it then instead then it's a pro for the resilience of Bitcoin is it not yeah we've literally gone to this extent of what's been the traffic has been put on yeah and it's it's run as normal yeah they didn't they didn't do that for a industry it's like the first example I was given was they were doing it for the the good of the congestion of the industry they didn't do that they just said that otherwise and used that as a play and in the first big ball run that you can remember and when the mempool got to you know a similar similar effect on the mentor was there a lot of exchanges tripping at that point yeah ever since everyone tripped and now this time it's only banners that had to pause it yep to me then and the men pull is a much bigger size than it was it's back in the original it is but obviously the improvements in Bitcoin and all the actual infrastructure there is is massively Improvement allow us to showing Improvement right yeah because it's coped with it yeah and also the fees we were paying back then Dollar Wise I think was more expensive back then than it is now currently even at 180 000 in comparison to 420 000 now and I think it's probably getting on a par now at the minute but uh very close um and it was over months as well that it was painful from once that the backlog was just from I started to get a background I think in August when the hard Fork happened with Bitcoin cash that was like 2017 August um he's won the Bitcoin cash hard fault happened and we started getting a backlog around that point I think and that carried on until probably January February and so it was a good five six month period where it built up and it was like spiked in October I think it was the big spike was like October it was chaos um and our wallet was we were like I Zach had just joined us and he was I was trying to teach him and one of our other Tech is about tremolysis but I'm trying to run a business at the same time as deal with the wallets just basically picking up all day long every day dealing with manual transactions of things because our system wasn't capable at the time of dealing with a lot of these issues that we'd never experienced and weren't aware of until they became an issue nobody in the industry was aware of um and all of the exchanges couldn't handle the um the load I guess over the customers they couldn't they were turning off sign ups so they weren't let any new customers come along and sign up uh Kraken we um partnered with for a long time and they their API their things just just stopped working just full stop I was having to manually do so much stuff it was just firefighting for that but from that lesson with now the resilience you build up yeah being like this long in the industry in the OG like now let's find out you have something that's comparable happening this weekend and we just saw all systems ago yeah lightning transactions through the rest of this stuff on Twitter made us look brilliant yeah all is the lightning still open one of the few not really seeing any other exchanges complaining about this isn't it no feasible people have gotta pay a bit more that's it yeah it's the resilience technically from Bitcoins perfectly fine it's just through paying a bit more for Block space but that's what the fee Market is and that's someone's gonna happen and then whether that's ordinals or mass volume of transactions going through for financial purposes it's the same outcome but I kind of think this is the future of Bitcoin if you think about what the miners need that yeah there needs to be composition for Block space yeah I did see it was blocks the Block Wars 2.0 yeah everyone's unfamiliar I thought it captures that book could go back and read the book was tweeted around yeah no people because the same arguments come up don't they but where people sit in terms of buying bigger blocks together so there isn't all this problem but up it's too Meg the problem still exists it's slightly cheaper for these people to spam it and they can make more money so they'll do more of it it doesn't really make a difference the competition for the space for minus to treat the blocks yeah but the mining reward uh as I heard that the transaction fees were equivalent to what romantic reward was for a block if you mine more than that yeah was it more you're up to about 10 Bitcoin for a block sometimes and some of the rewards solo mining that bad boy I was walking away with 16. are we on 3.25 or 6.25 there's 6.25 I've lost track I know a matching thousand Bitcoin 101. I don't know six two five six two five yeah I never had it was three already that's actually next year ten months away all good yeah I'm still learning he's double-ended um but yeah someone would have mined that at 16. the ordinals um basically Pepe I think because I go Pepe I don't know I don't missed Pepe what where did this come from if you look at my Twitter feed that's all you can see everything's a frog well this has come from yeah not even following Pepe people was in Manchester oh I remember no I know I've had I don't know why he was dressed up as a puppy yeah thing I remember literally never understand it it's just a meme but then obviously it's been created into a token and jpegs that I think it's collected not even a medium is it's just that how many times can we draw a frog in different different positions of different it does come from Michael here was the the meme of Pepe of what it's from of where it originally it's from yeah isn't it bad isn't it got quite a Sinister no it was Fortune sort of put it on but it was originally quite a nice friendly meme I think uh arguing Pepe people is there a Pepe Army did you see that no do you know Natalie and his DMS were just full of absolute abuse well they're telling him I've always been a Pepe fan actually doesn't want to die David no one will find you on Twitter some guy that was supposed to be following me said he couldn't even see my teeth I lose followers he follows two people yeah so yeah it was created in 2005 for a comic called Boys Club but then by 2008 he'd become a very popular meme on 4chan um oh there was all sorts of the sad Pepe angry Pepe and there was like people were trading them like trading cards almost yeah and that's what I've seen like rare Pepe which is why it's come on to this so now ordinals but I was I've read somewhere that the ordinals was mainly text based so the biggest growth in ordinals has just been text not image they're not saving images onto the blockchain they're saving I guess at the minute minting the coins which then I don't know how they've been structuring it but yeah it's a bit Jason Cobra goes in the uh the transactions right um and it's like a one so Jason Jason's a technical term for um kind of a a I don't know anymore I lost it it's a I'm trying to think of a terminology for you guys it's an array of um really don't dumb it down array of information no array means I'm trying to think of terminology this would be an array of coasters a terminology yet so and then you'd have a third one in there just that would still be there right so you've got an alcohol data should we call them so this is your Json object is there is all three together yeah and then that so you've got like a it's like blue piece one's in there is a title one's the amount you're mint in one's the name of it or something and the other ones the the limit you can go to or something okay so that's been putting the file on the ordinal so that is on the on the transactions yeah right um then is it similar to what we did because we've put yes code on transactions before yep so what's that yeah okay yeah but this is and because they're using Tap Root to be able to effectively do it it's been a combination of the ordinal Concepts and Theory so counting the SATs uh which we all will explain about all knows how they work the combination of that and then using it via the way they're storing that data allows them to save space or allow it to be cheaper it's like four times cheaper to do it in the way they're doing it than if they just put it on the way we originally did um so it's cheaper way in theory to mince Pepe coins Jake the call is the brc20 because it's the equivalent of an erc20 yeah I'm not on it I don't listen you listen when you're on it and yeah awesome just go and just just left that guy like absolutely opposite what I do I listen when I'm not on it no don't listen when I'm on all right egotistically did I really sound that stupid yes I do just cringe go through it yes why did I say that you're an idiot but is it a better place to be for that sort of Market than any other uh blockchain tokens I think the point is yeah it's it's a true more trusted Network to a Bitcoin have more trusted stronger Baseline the other one so yeah the foundation level base layer is stronger so it's got legs more resilient so the idea is I think most of them will be slowly migrating over because it's a more there's two worries here there's for them sorry whoever's putting on there one angle is yes it's a it's a positive because it's not on Tron anymore it's not on these are the random ones that can get changed and deleted Etc um so we can move on to a more strengthened base layer the negative side if they take the effort and the money and everything to move it over and then we within the community decide there's like a knee reaction as such to change the consensus of Bitcoin to not allow for this to happen and start trying to prevent it then that might disrupt their waste their money waste their time waste a resource on moving over so it's early days with us I think at the minute um there isn't I think a knee-jerk reaction in Bitcoin no it's that's the positive thing for it I think as well it's always slow and steady and trying to figure it out and I think there is there has been core developers talking around it and stuff and it's kind of I think the general consensus is kind of this is the fee Market this is what happens you've got to let it play out and see what happens because if um you start changing things it kind of defeats the point they're not changing things I think that's wrong as well some people are saying that you can't change the the rules you still for Bitcoin because because you don't like the way they're doing it the reality is every code change to bitcoin generally is changing it because we're trying to change something for the better for the financial system so if this is a change change for the final better for the financial system or the future of the finance Financial system then if the consensus of the community and all the industry agrees then that's where it moves the same will happen with Segway and same happened with Taproom and things you agreed them changes and they came in so I wouldn't say it's censoring in some way that I think people some people are saying you can't change it because then it defeats the point of Bitcoin being um yeah pre-lightning opinion isn't it I think Lightning's made this possible because the Reliance is no longer on the the main chain right you can now have these you can still do your transactional stuff without having to go on chain you're starting to open the channels for lightning though yeah but I'm talking about making a lightning payment to you or whatever yeah you're no longer waiting for the next but it's not on chain transaction there's so many angles to this and this is where this now does and it always has done it slowly gets more complicated more complicated the more parties that take part so for example um Anita um that's like a name Anita Posh is it yeah so she is heavily trying to like orange pill Africa sorry she's called Anita push I realize she does s c h or something like that she's trying orange pill Africa and that side of things which is is gray but now she's then tweeting at the weekend saying about well how am I meant orange pill like on board people if I can't they can't afford like transactions twenty dollars or something per transaction fee it doesn't work what do I do she can't open Lightning channels because it's gonna cost him twenty dollars but they might only want to open a 20 Channel which you know two weeks ago you could have done for 20 cent now you gotta pay twenty dollars so she's kind of coming at this angle of the developing world can't afford to use the base layer anymore so now you've destroyed the base layer from being used in the developing World however yes you can use lightning but you can only use lightning in a custodial way which yeah so she's then people were saying enough to use custodial for now but then the other argument is people are coming in um with a non-custodial um privacy angle against the uh or more of the decentralization aspects they're going to want to be being able to run their own light and Note and being able to drive these parts of the world the Africans and so on in a non-custodial Manner and so they come with their angle however we as an exchange we are centralized we are having to abide by regulations in all the different countries we operate in so we actually for us like as I was saying before it's not really massively affected us we have to up the fees for on-trained transactions for customers and that does affect our customers so which does affect us obviously but for the most part if people need to make payments to do things yes Lightning's own available and we've got big enough lightning nodes and channels to cater for these issues um so we've not had any channels close on our lightning nodes and we've still got plenty of inbound and outbound liquidity available and we can move it as and when quite easily without doing on-chain uh Footprints so yeah we're not as affected neither will strike neither will um crack and add all these other guys we're all kind of ticking along perfectly fine in the background but we're centralized and we're coming at a completely different angle to the guys that are doing good and there's so many different angles as well it's not just them you've got them um I saw Fiat jaff who's um incredibly knowledgeable on lightning and all sorts of cryptography Technologies and how that all works and he was one that helped build Nostra and all this sad great he was then tweeting of something about um light meat Linings and maybe not the future of what we expect then because his I think he had like four channels forced clothes on him on his lightning node and it was like I don't know what details and scales they're on I don't feel like 20 channels and they've closed because they've been force closed or whether that's a bug in L and D that he's using to do it which is it was rumored to be a bug in l d um and we're sat there with very large channels and nothing issues at all it's just perfectly fine ticking away there was no problems at all for the last week or so is this the sort of thing we were talking about last week the TBD XXX would it's all essentially fix yeah we still don't know the detail of that but yeah essentially um so yeah it's there's so many uh parties within the industry now and within Bitcoin now that they all come with their own this is part of um what people say about bitcoin's base layer and the development of it and eventually it will get to um I forgot the terminology is called Suffocation uh ossification classification um I think I did Electro B in there and so the last episode basically development slowly stop over time and once you get to a point where you can have it because the consensus of there's so many parties involved it will be difficult for them all to agree on base layer changes and it just won't change and then you need to be able to make sure that that base layer is strong and as the foundation that you can build on top of it with Layer Two and layer threes and so on which I think where we're heading towards so is this the latest ordinal thing because I know we had the the ordinal couple of months ago is this just another fad that's just going to get a peep and then kind of dial for how does this resolve basically I think it'll die it will die off slightly because it's just like just boomed into the amount of stuff that's getting meaning scripted on there like there's it's almost doubled yeah it's all been minted right now it's like is it all Pepe getting added I crap no idea no there's a there's a brc20 list of what's the main ones again I think Pepe's third there's something called odd and then owls yeah that's all audios the naming stuff in this industry is real ridiculous yeah I don't actually know what that is though no yeah I don't know what they're doing yeah but you're right that they will in my head they'll slowly dial yeah um the interesting because people are doing it the minute someone just jumping on well the minion is quick as it's get rich quick the minion as quick as they can to try and sell it onto the next person for more money and then that person thinks I'll buy it because I'll sell it on for money and it's basically the jpegs and nfts that we saw you know 12 18 24 months ago um and eventually people you stop finding idiots to be able to pay for them and buy them and then people start losing money and then the activity dies down and so I think it is that initial burst and then we'll wait and sit back and see um but lightning it doesn't affect a custodial level really at all I think it adds a little extra you know we got paid twenty dollars to open a channel then it's not the end of the world we're paying a dollar last week we got paid 20 this week but we're opening a Bitcoin Channel which is you know a 30 grand 30 000 channel do you think it'll push more line because we know binance not looking at it yeah selling us as a consequence or they must have been looking at it anyway I think they were definitely looking at anyway but I think yeah this is kicking them into to do it um because I think we're sorry tweet from Bitcoin archive they listed all the the exchanges we were one of them that was except lightning and then the cross it does start to look bad for these Bitcoin exchanges that was haven't got lightning instead they'll be listing pepecoin and they'll be listing all these other things instead of adding lightning and it's like because that's what makes them money and because people are trading on it and speculating on these coins and jpegs so that's why they're adding them things and doing that because it makes them money adding lightning they're going to start losing money you've seen from who was that complete went into liquidation bit their tracks better tracks you see that they listed absolutely everything and now yeah it's it's the business model that might be failing it's definitely a slowly dying business model I think you'll probably see the same from coinbase and that's why they need to keep seeing a new hype of things which is as I said over the years you end up with altcoins which originally then it was just a blockchain concept and it was distributed Ledges then it was icos and it was I feel like we had a D5 bit in there but then we had nfts and then we've got D5 and every time they have to bring out something different something new and I think that's also a failing model for because it's like a VC for new model as well but it just kind of pushing but they hope they get the next batch of idiots to come through and buy into these Concepts and these methods like out of all them which ones of them have made any long lasting products that I've actually have used in the world and there isn't really any through them um and they need to finance and coinbase and that need something else to pop up and maybe brc20 is the next thing that people are jumping on and they'll try and make use of it which might be why they're adding lightning them I'm thinking and get a way to move this in and out and then we can spam the network without pressure to grow really quickly is no one's in it for the long term anymore and when you are like we you seem as The Outsider but it's only like 50 years ago all businesses were in it for the long run it with those like reasons yeah real revenues it was basically the growth of the internet and the get users at all costs it doesn't matter if they're profitable it's about getting sign ups and then hopefully a network effect step into really accelerate it that's become the norm for a period but I think that that will start the day out I think it has started today and especially with the VC uh hiccups that had over the last two years or so um but I think that casino the binance coinbase casino business model I think is slowly die now as well um it'll still continue because you know people still want to get rich quick and yeah it's fine the audience there's always there's a place for it almost like gambling yeah there's Ladbrokes that 365 they've been around for years is exciting to hold a really obscure altcoin that might five back yeah which is like putting I don't know you know 200 quid on a horse that might five bucks um so he's gambling it sits on the gambling for me it should be under the gambling commission yeah and like all those conversations we've had it's just not people aren't seeing that separately at all into the same way we are no she's painful yep right still it's still still on the agenda and there's yeah we'll just do that long so we'll skip that one 700 000 households Miss mortgage payments for rent in the last month is this this is in the UK isn't it I think yeah Mikey what was it last month people are sick of saying that to everyone yeah we do need the comparisons um I can tell you where the numbers came from not interested so it came from which which question mark yeah oh yeah so that's they have a consumer Insight tracker which is an online poll conducted monthly by Yonder on behalf of which it uh it's weighted to be nationally representative with approximately 2 000 respondents per wave okay what waivers big sample it is for a survey to be fair these days although does it should have last month's son if they've got if they do that on a regular monthly basis and which is to be fair you would think quite reputable which well I think they rated the Honda Jazz best uh cow here it's nice don't believe it my car starting to look like a wreck embarrassment in the in the casino and scratches yeah it's absolutely dented us let's mod it and make it into the the playground pressure I'm starting to feel but can we wrap it with like Bitcoin or something yeah and then it'll look nicer yeah you can't positive yes the next bubble will be personal car loans where it's people are getting well over over well on personal Tales I think that's the same as this I think that's what this was part of it it was not just mortgages and rent I think it was loans as well and people credit cards mortgage rent loan credit cards or bills and I have found the figure for March it actually says that April was actually down so March was 8.8 whereas April was 7.3 so March is worse yeah so yeah so that's good making big news out nothing aren't they with tweets like well not nothing is still a lot of people to to miss a page it's actually like down with trend of anything downward trend of two months you'd have to look at the chart yeah so you get more Mikey like mortgage renewal rates there's a hundred thousand every month so every every month under 100 000 people with mortgages are getting a new mortgage or in mortgage renewal at a higher rate than they were previously you know it'll be a high rate because the interest rates are through the roof are you you found out I found out yeah so you know that pod about three months ago where I was celebrating getting a low rate and then you got screwed over yeah you did get good rates with um compared but there's like 100 000 people every month finding out they're gonna have to pay an extra few hundred pounds it's a little bit dry yeah it's a lot and then what's the cost of living through the roof that's really painful especially if they had like a five-year like normally it's two in the UK two or five years and you sort of ranges only if you uh mortgage um Jesus what was it so what's the first date on that yeah that's January 20th yeah geez what's happening so that it peaked at nine point so default and when did it now that was January is that January 22 that would see though the peak was in January 22 yeah so that's interesting Peak but why are you still trying to go but that's just a like if you trendline that that's still just on the rise Moon so people are defaulting because the cost of living is a hell of an upward trend of that yeah so I won't try better zoomed in yeah that is a missed payment rate in June 2020 was four percent and currently April 23 it's just above seven Bullhead in between seven and eight seven and nine percent to be honest doesn't it fluctuating between that the missed payment rates nearly doubled in three years yeah and it's going up for this still so you've got to see that come down that's scary yeah I mean it's like it's it's just like the The Big Show all over isn't it so people waiting for its pop on that really positive happy news such an interesting way to end this problem well no here Vietnamese no idea over Bitcoin and started saving mentality and drive rubbish cars don't get yourself over the problem is the people listening to this will probably already have Bitcoin and buying Bitcoin so they need they'll start advice that they need I had many other questions I'm saying yeah um yeah I mainly look at you as a person who buys them to like really nice cars yeah but they're not expensive and they're also every car I've had has been second half third hand I've never bought a brand new car we've gone I don't know many people at all that buy brand new cars people get over Finance for cars don't they finance for a cowboy It's not brand new no I don't know anyone that's bought a brand new car that sounds really weird I know a few and they were at the pool anyway my little bargain Steve coin corn Corner News what were we gonna do what about the ifas oh yeah oh yeah we're going right give us the the long story shortly five that's all good I haven't even done my start in my book review you can see I read your vocal carry on recording um yeah so me and Danny have been on a little Mission uh last few weeks haven't we uh speaking to local ifas into independent financial advisors basically asking them is it called straw man or steel man where you basically yeah and the straw man's the counter so so you're basically trying to find we know that ifas can't or won't recommend Bitcoin in your portfolio I know it from personal experience where I've gone to a financial advisor about a pension and that I've told them how much that what my assets are told them my Bitcoin holding and they said we can't value that that'd have to be a nil value so obviously I was 45 minutes into an argument later about how how you can value it and more than anything else that they would put value off um and but that's a [ __ ] good point you couldn't go to Google and just say right bitcoin price right price of a Honda Jazz I quite enjoyed it when they said that that's the whole point I said that I was like you're putting that as nil but you're putting like a car they hadn't seen they put you know a couple of grand on it did they really yeah and they're all right that's a few grand it's nice because there's high level stuff anyway because it's just a but I basically this is your asset on a house had not seen they're putting x amount from where it was and how many bedrooms they have yeah but for the actual Bitcoin the exact amount I had they couldn't they said no nil as to get an accurate price on that and you could yell at them or in your house yeah so it's literally like right forget it I'm not using them anymore but but the point is so made me say cry we need to get these people in and speak to them about where the barrier is because we it's up to us I feel as an exchange advocating Bitcoin strongly to break down these barriers and make sure we have to be the advocates for Bitcoin this is we have to understand the argument this is education isn't it as well this is all part of our education push we do things educational side behind the scenes as well it's not just like public facing things you can do these are all the soul conversations in the background we're always having and trying to do yeah um with people trying to I think like you said the Steelman argument get them to come and tell us all their problems with Bitcoin and let us try and um this uh boiled down to quite a simple problem didn't it the ifas can recommend investments from what they described as a quite a vanilla list of invest a wireless doesn't it yeah a bit of vanilla products which means they're safe and will be considered safe they say it yeah so they were saying it's safely didn't like the volatility of Bitcoin or the one of them said the liquidity so we have to argue for AIDS it's an educational problem because someone said they had a problem with the bitcoin's liquidity which I'd consider Bitcoin to be the most liquid Market in the world you can sell it 26 5 24 7. but that was a lack of understanding yeah so there's a huge lack of understanding and that they can only advise on product listing that have been whitelisted by fraternity of ifas on the island so they would agree on assets that they could recommend but there's quite a closed book they've closed the door on bitcoin and bracketed it with crypto which was a really annoying thing so me and Danny had to go through lots of big basically orange peeling ifas um which we don't mind doing I quite like it it was honestly very inside I'm not clearly you just bombard them before yes it was insightful very useful really good conversation we've got lots more of these that we're going to be having um to help educate ourselves in terms of why these people don't like Bitcoin um and to help educate them after the conversations we've had so far they've all gone away like all of a sudden they're in their orange pills well one they've gone away they've opened accounts and they've come they've come back they want us to do um CBD at their firms one has already come back with a boss of the firm looking at um some send globally bits and pieces of where they can utilize the Bitcoin Network to send globally there's an exchange so part of their offering that's another company that they yeah so it was literally like straight away you could see them once they've got understanding of what big an interoperable Network can provide there's a completely decentralized they got like they kind of got excited about it they didn't understand anything through the utility or anything that was part of it as well no didn't understand that they send it around the world well I accuse them of just like turn they the best performing asset in the last couple of years should be on their radar they should know a lot about it already they should know why they're not recommended yeah they're as lazy on their part and we told them as much but um what's the best financial option for me oh I've just ignored the best performing asset for us it's ridiculous we were I think as well we were expecting to go into this with a bit of an argument and a bit pushback and it was far easier than I think this is been really constructive it's been conversations actually yeah so uh enjoyable and I hope to have more of my calendar is now getting pretty full of now we're going to get any work done and Dave Road showed four people about me there's an effort to the madness behind the scenes of all the things that we're working on that will tie into all this at the same time as I was trying to gather education on this is we now have some marketing pieces that we're looking to bring together off the back of this as well which will be more public facing but it was it's silly things like they honestly do not know you can buy a bit of a Bitcoin yeah do they still think you have to buy a problem that you have in 2023 especially to an IFA but it's I think it's our failing ignorance as well because we can Market but we're marking in you know we can Market in certain places but unless they see that market they're not going to go out there and like to look for it so unless you're in the face slapping them which over the years you can try that but you've got to do that so much so heavy in so many different places realistically most people are not going to see that and that you know is maybe it needs to be like a BBC documentary that talks about it and explains these basic things but still you know not everybody's going to read it not everyone's going to watch it sorry um but then from that they would then need to go and do their own research which you can mark all you want but if people see it and then don't drink it about it then yeah that's it it's almost nothing yeah the good thing about these meetings you're having is that they are it's it's the opportunity to ask questions yeah I think it worked really well face to face because you can buy people with tweets but it's just too easily ignored but they're talking about filth they got followers they go look at it you know none of them that came in had Twitter accounts so they're not going to see that that bubble that audience and they might have had LinkedIn but they're also not active on LinkedIn so where are they what are they watching what are they reading where do you get how do you get in their faces but you've got eight billion people trying it in the face it's not I wouldn't say it's bad marketing on bitcoin's behalf or I'll be half or anything like that just yeah yeah there's no way it's a a natural progression of education on something new and growing like the internet was and I just thought we were smart alongs himself that really did I was surprised but inside this little Bitcoin bubble because they're all about long term there are picture posts so there was like oh Bitcoins too volatile so you're just like yeah this is this is top secret no you don't want me to do okay um yeah it's good yeah so cool well not cool though sometimes you use you need to keep stuff in the fire right yeah but we'll continue to have these conversations and see where they get to I think some of it will come from the marketing perspective then you'll start to see some of that show um and some of it from products and things like that with a lot to launch yeah um but yeah it all just boils down to education that is the underlying yeah issues just have those conversations isn't it so some people we talked about it before and you've been reluctant to try and orange pill people but but but it comes down to the facts you've got to find out everybody's unique in the sense of why they will or won't touch back when you've got to drill down into what their their personal reason is or I think as well that this so sorry Interruption of the as always um the people that came in so far and and some of the ones that are coming in as well are coming in and doing us a favor because they have no interest in Bitcoin one coin was just like just not interested didn't really want any Bitcoin while they were here um they've come in and done it almost as a favor because they know somebody within the business and we've reached out to talk to them and they just come in for kind of an hour conversation chat on it and see what we could tell them they've gone away like and gone away with that mindset so it's been eye-opening to them and if we didn't know them or know somebody in our business that knows that we may have never got opportunity to have the conversations because they had to just turn around and said no Bitcoin not interested just for drugs online it's from gambling whatever and walk away from it and you would never get the opportunity to sit down and talk to another conversations so it's that strong word of mouth education I think which is in my head key where you know and trust somebody that would then have the conversation with you and teach you about Bitcoin because you know interesting it doesn't scale from a coin Coconut Point if we can't get everyone in individually for me and you to have a chat we can try and convert people with 7.9 just go on a bit go on some of those should have been half one hour two hours later yeah great adventure I think people listen yeah but that's the point the people listening and everybody within the community and things like that's for them guys to go out there and educate people talk to people and when does they educate as well Don't Preach that's one of the things we've done with these guys coming in we've brought them in and for the first 15-20 minutes it's what's your problem with Bitcoin why don't you like Bitcoin tell us all your red flags run through them all and then we'll work our way through and explain why that's not an issue and things like that so it's one written was I don't I can't afford to buy one Bitcoin it's like it's so basic so easy I want you to tell them you can buy five bids with it's like oh and you're telling the satoshi's in Bitcoin Bitcoins you pounds satosha Japan so like that's mind-blowing too it's like it's as simple as that yeah we just two for granted it's got to have that conversation with them if you can't get that conversation with somebody you're never going to educate no matter how much advertising to throw at them you're better at not getting too annoyed during them yeah keep it cool ahead then I yeah and I'm just like for what you idiot I don't know I feel like they've been very easy in comparison's history of ones I've had right so I think absolutely I've enjoyed them these are easy but hopefully this will be like the network effect on it I mean you're saying you guys don't have the time to sit down and educate everyone but by doing these guys then take they'll go off and tell people and wish they have them but then they wanted to come in yeah but then at the same point you explain no one of them you just read up yourself one of them came in for a meeting half an hour later I had an email from them inviting his big boss to come in for another meeting was the week after yeah it was like that quick yeah isn't that interested in yep there we go anyway good good week on that okay I'll end on a positive shall we book review Alex Scott scene's a friend of the show what's the point right here how can you review it I'm not gonna review I'm just gonna suggest I'm going to talk about the beginning of the show forget it that's what we can try and introduce new things actually I'm going to read it tonight hidden repression how the IMF and the World Bank self-exployed this unless it's on or development by Ali Scotty if it's on Audible have you read his check his financial privilege it looks like a brilliant book 10 minutes long an audible that review next week me and me and Zack next week will do a review book club and we can yeah we can do the other bits and as well maybe okay and that's back right yeah okay cool oh that's all right we can talk about right yeah we didn't talk about that question bitcoin price 27 638 yeah right right thank you guys [Music] thank you