Bitcoin Ordinals Over Already? | Britcoiners by CoinCorner #78

Join Danny, Molly, Zakk, and Dave for this weeks ramblings. Topics this week include: Coinbase net loss of $2.62 billion in 2022,, Binance Pay and Ingencio, BIS general manager claims fiat won battle against crypto, Coinbase staking "fundamentally different" to Kraken’s, German DZ Bank adds digital currencies, Marco Falke to step down from Bitcoin Core, Montana state senate pass "Right to Mine" bill, IMF's "Elements of Effective Policies for Crypto Assets", and Ordinal inscriptions ~0.1% of Bitcoin miner revenue. Our Merchant of the Month is Herts Hemp ( Subscribe to our new Britcoiners YouTube channel: This episode is sponsored by CoinCorner ( - A global leader in Bitcoin and Lightning services.

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so we're back welcome back agenda this week price as usual Merchant of the month coinbase losing money uh we've got we've got Dave irritating everybody as usual we've got uh binance Payne and jenico uh bis general manager talking about crypto coinbase chief lawyer talking about staking uh German Bank adding digital currencies Marco Falk falc I can never say his name uh Bitcoin called Dev Brazil and Argentina with a common currency because there's a lot here U.S legislators big week and cbdc Montana and right to mind Bitcoin strap yourself you guys just carry on talking over me to everybody yeah IMF uh still talking no ordinal inscriptions I mean that was months ago now isn't it but we're talking about because of the minor Revenue it's actually bringing in is less than 0.1 oh really yeah is it all over already they're doing a conference there's an order yeah me I'm organizing it what Miami amazing it's so exactly the same time as I think it's like the week after is it yeah venue I don't know surely I read it it's just a background people think it's a Stax conference just rebounded as an ordinals one ah is it a build hype well they lied that well they were trying to not lie they were trying to miss the market wasn't going to misguide people into what Stacks was and like linking it toward me yeah so what is stacks the real Chris it's just ordinals Chris she's on Chris I'm just taking them Pringles did they how do they stop producing them are they nice I don't know I'm not I don't know but that's all I think of when you hear stacked using crisps pretty much anyway price no one cares 23 352 ish at the minute down a little bit down six percent I'm gonna I'm on fire now because I know each week I literally send out the weekly price update email before this so we're down 5.9 this time last week no I'm so nice I'm just so nice for the sake of saying nicer Molly described herself as on fireplace [Laughter] yeah there you go well the the global markets down as well is the correlation correlation yeah can we not can we bring that up because I've absolutely robbed here last week the correlation Mikey put two charts on the board last week that correlated beautifully and then gave you a point for saying that they don't correlate no well Mikey knows which side of his bread the book is butted on you expect it was about the boss that's exactly it don't you always say that you pay them yeah yeah it's a thankless job you do payroll um yeah just forgot to pay you this weekend honestly I might make a little deduction um but me and Dave had off off the record conversations didn't we and it came to the point of what's the definition of a correlation no it didn't it's not something no I'm sure is there a difference yes correlation it can be measured there's a definition of one being perfect isn't it perfect conversation oh yeah and but then what's not a correlation so it was never won throughout it got right up yeah it was close to one but yeah in 2023 it was not even close was it it was mostly in the 0.2 region downwards and then into the negatives this was the definition we couldn't agree on yeah I asked Dave for definition he said there's no such thing it's a definition for you sometimes just a waste of time isn't it I just think if you can argue yeah you'll just twist the words as in what does mostly means what mostly means yes they do they sound like a lawyer keep everything vague don't don't give anything exact definitions right mostly yeah mostly what no that was huge correlation and the still is and we'll get another chart and Mikey will still give you the point okay anyway no one's interested in losing battles constantly and I get stressed we've all got problems we're losing an eye or something anyway I'm sick yeah yeah surprised you're even here I don't take days off when I'm sick Dave um absolutely part-time an hour what's your nickname yeah and you booked another holidays You know what last year I took I took such a little holiday that I actually carried days over no and I'm just using them yeah Spears talks it's because I took two weeks off at Christmas which was exactly because I had the holiday to do so okay we were all so busy you're just swanning off I've said this is my eighth year here I've accumulated my holidays okay right agenda are you done are we allowed to go back on Saturday yeah sorry not safe you know you're just getting the mood about everything that's the sort of dates but we've been barely into the afternoon barely into the week yeah Monday and you get like this with everyone it's hard work coinbase let's abuse coinbase then coinbase you can be in a mood with them they lost a net loss of 2.6 billion dollars in 2020. but made more Revenue than they were expected to make they did yeah um but who who's not by much there's the expectations but like who's winning the expectation who creates some expectations analysts who are these analysts banking analysts so all the big four will have huge amounts of analysts in there to kind of predict where the Market's going so we've got a definition for that guys thank you Dave it's external people setting targets and then they end up you know if they hit them that's they kind of in my head I always think that is very much Market manipulation brokerages recommending the shares it's just have to put our information to say where they think it's going yeah which then becomes Market manipulation in some ways because if you can overestimate what you think they're actually going to have but that is extremely well regulated you're not allowed to do that and yeah there's no no [Laughter] foreign's all about as well and any other sort of fraud around that I'd like to think the system is a bit more [Laughter] okay but yeah um big loss that's better coinbase big loss for coinbase you blame the crypto winner didn't they yep as they all will yeah but that's fair enough yeah they spent a lot though or wasted a lot I would say they're nft well they're nft platforms yeah but they're and they could be expected Roi might it might come back in terms of five years ten years time they're gonna argue that to make to save face basically on that Army we did like what 12 000. are you saying the nft market won't come back on sell your nfts [Laughter] you've seen stranger things happen at Sea like nft Market it will always come back in my head with hype cycles and that because it was there it tends to be different though it's always a smaller return or smaller hype than the next time around historically speaking but you think it'd be would it be strange for the of the next hype cycle that nfts are back as a high-payer mode it'd be slightly something slightly different because there's other high Cycles yeah it's like the version of if you look at old coins alt coins every year come back at hype cycle don't you but icos haven't as much are they uh last half cycle they still did last one it was all more D5 so it was kind of moved into D5 swap based ice yes they were still creating tokens and doing things which is effectively what Ico was okay but now Ico has obviously being regulated out and so that will slim obviously that down happening in the next couple of Hypes whereas coinbase's share price now is that on there no idea actually have not looked I'm down about five or six billion I think was it yeah I think market value uh market value hmm okay so they get eight dollars for a coinbase shirt what's their over 100 cap is 13.5 billion oh it's gonna was down at 6 billion was there not the other week I think must have been at the new announcement that layer tooth anyway yeah so they've had a window I've got some [ __ ] for that on Twitter didn't you I was reading through when you were asking about I actually all the r of it yeah a lot of negative replies about it that's what's expecting yeah that wasn't me though go and watch the video on it I was like well give me a link and what's this about well he's they're like they've created ethereum lates who coinbase have okay um again buzzword around buzzword around buzzword of what that actually means um and the idea of it is just to allow or what they've called it like allowing people to build D5 stuff again effectively um on this layer two that they've created and opened up the reality is it's a layer two controlled by them that they are basically trying to create an app store they've tried an app store and historically in the past time yeah now they've tried to do an App Store for decentralized apps and things like that this is their third attempts as far as malware and then they'll basically saying right you you developers come along develop an app or whatever it is and it comes onto this through their Layer Two and through their protocol uh which they obviously call is decentralized and everything which is not and they control it um and they're trying to create an app store where they have they're The Gatekeepers basically they're like apple to your iTunes and Google to your Android play store um is what they're trying to do for that I'm trying to do you think they'll do the same Apple model for in in in-app payments there is already have a bit of a rake off the top I think there already is something on that about yeah how you how they make money on it and how to take fees I've not really read the detail but there is something around that but yeah it's just another attempt I'm pretty sure it's their third attempt he said just let it go like Facebook trying to create a payments yeah thing over and over again yeah okay but wish them all the best yeah we're gonna keep jumping on the next hype every time aren't they but um that's a business model right that's the only thing they can do yeah because they had the opportunity in the early days to go all in Bitcoin and just be build on bitcoin like we're doing yeah and they chose they're always slightly too late well it depends if that if the nft market was still yeah as hot as it was then it wouldn't be too late would they well no but they are two Lakes it's not yeah it's too late I can't roll things out quick enough yeah potentially I mean I don't think you would they would have figured that the nft market would burn out so quickly right it's been it had a good two-year Runway didn't it two years nfts before they built yeah really yeah time I think wasn't it when the first nft starts cropping up yes it's during lockdowns time has flown actually that's so long ago but it took us to try and get rid of that a year to see them come in and talk about that about a year to build the products and then they got it out eventually and the same with Kraken they've only they're legitimately launched those theirs was after coinbase as well wasn't it yeah are they doing big launches are they just like all right we've built it we spent Millions yeah yeah that's where all the butchers Matt Damon in it no no no because that's so but that's still the four way of promo videos well like Logan Paul with his whatever he was doing cryptos jeez yeah I think there'll be another year or two before we see any more celebs really getting actively involved which is good thing Logan Paul can now not be photographed without a bottle of prime somewhere or holding it somewhere or it was just so ridiculous yeah it's just walking around like that rhyme it's all over at the primary schools [Laughter] seen that video that guy's hilarious uh skipping that one because you I haven't read that ones put your name to it but no just to highlight pass in one really more than anything uh they were they actually hacked or was it I don't really know what it was I don't know I think yeah the owner just tweeted scene I see I don't know if he'd like lost all the wording was from no yeah he said um it was hacked but basically don't use Ln anymore it's closing down there's a service so if anyone was don't use it Finance play is that what the guy said just don't don't use it he's not he's not oh just shut down all right little one-man bandages can't be okay um payment provider ingenico partners with binance pay to allow crypto payments right Danny's current thing right I'm 100 behind if you want to go protesting the street about this because I'll start the banner I think it's the first time honestly I'm with you yeah I'll make the banner we'll just March behind Danny and you can make your point Ben um yeah so for anyone not understanding that so binance pay which keeps cropping up everywhere at the minute I'm speaking news over and over again yeah um that these people are accepting crypto payments now when I mean the Bahrain uh government have been involved in the Bahrain side of it as doing crypto payments um it's cropping up everywhere at the minute but it is just binance pay it's not crypto payments so it's binance pay is a closed loop similar to like PayPal so you can only pay when the QR code pops up on the POS uh say even on the ingenico device it's a binance QR code that you scan with your binance pay wallet and that's the only thing you can scan it with and then it deducts it from your binance account making the payment from binance to binance so it's just an internal database transaction there's no crypto payments involved anywhere whatsoever the most closed loop thing ever right it is so there's there's two angles for it of binance could treat this like Trojan Horse right this is the first step we have to do to do a closed loop and then we can open it up to allow third-party third-party wallets to be able to pay within it or they are moating a industry here and More in countries here that want to jump on the crypto bandwagon which is like they've been heavy was it Kazakhstan bahrainable over their eyes so they just not understand so it doesn't fraud governments potentially could be getting the walls pulled over there and these companies other companies without a doubt are I think for a lot of this because they just think it's it's cryptic it's binance it's crypto it's like that's they just go along with it they don't understand um but yeah binance have one angle of years at Trojan Horse they could make the argument that doing this stepping stones and then they'll open it up eventually is everybody going to trust that I don't I don't particularly if they haven't said that though they've never said that but no yeah wherever that's come from literal hogwasher come from me and the only way I could think to defend them and outside of that they are just melting this whole industry and what they're trying to do is everything goes through binance which at which point you might as well just use paper um because the it's the one I bought a tweet out on the back because obviously Bitcoin magazine a lot of the big influencers that's what's annoying me most they're not bad oh they're excited yeah like no they're all pushing it it's like me turning around saying Tesco accepts Bitcoin now because I can get a Visa card that I can top up with my Bitcoin and then use that Visa card to go and spend in Tesco well in that case Tesco if you contacted Bitcoin magazine then have you said look this isn't Bitcoin this is a closed loop system so everybody knows it this has been going on for months now of this happening and they're all just ignoring it because it's like I don't know if it's like fake opium that these guys think we need some positive bitcoin news so they're just doing it right everybody's liking and retweeting these tweets about it just blindly and it gets attention obviously oh I feel like William are we missing something then no it's because people just don't spend times look into that and understand it do you think binance can be paying them for the Articles yeah okay yeah oh so yeah no doubt they're gonna be doing that but it's more frustrating as well the big accounts like um Bitcoin archive you know talk to him nice guy but he keeps tweeting he keeps tweeting that same thing about binance pay doing this and I've replied to him a number sorry saying this and he's just they're just not listening to it no one's in documented Bitcoin same sort of thing um well there's one The Impressions don't they yeah they value Impressions over accurate actual factual uh stuff it's not it's not unfactuals it depends yeah yeah theoretically they're accepting bitcoinology it's horrible so but they're not accepting Bitcoin yeah but you can understand why the wording is used to highlight the fact that nope because that's without me saying actually Tesco except Bitcoin because I can use my coinbase Visa card top it with Bitcoin and go and spend it at Tesco I mean you could write an article doing that saying that should I try people couldn't then yeah should I tweet out breaking Tesco now except Bitcoin all you have to do is do this yeah sell it send your Bitcoin into coinbase put it on your Visa card and go and spend it do you think you get loads of people backlash going no this isn't really I think we're talking about women if I put the detail in a second tweet I wonder if people will just ignore the second tweet and just retweet and like the first week because they'll think Tesco accepted I might end up with backlash from Tesco claiming something that is not true so maybe I won't do that yeah but you get the point is like I can't be banned from that Tesco on the islands [Laughter] um but that is the same scenario it's the mechanism around how you do it like what can we do to highlight that because I love the fact that our products so interoperable you can literally pay with any lighting wallet all our poses and that's it that's the point of Bitcoin right so how do we how do we shine a light on this other than just banging that drum just keep driving forwards I think in one way I've got to try and ignore it obviously get lawyers involved so look same get lawyers involved yeah assume misrepresentation of marketing I mean there will be something that would be aggressive I'm just thinking that's where we should go yeah but I mean selling books Sue whoever it takes to get I don't think that's going to get as much I mean the way to do would show up to one of these places that accept it and try and pay with the yeah you don't accept Bitcoin this is why um okay Joe to go around yeah yeah it's much better actually I regret getting employers he's anti-binance okay so where where is a place we could potentially do that Kazakhstan Bahrain where do you want to go first I'm just trying to think somewhere more accessible there isn't any yeah they've gone at the approach a lot of these countries um there's one in Dubai was there I think maybe so we could potentially the next time next time let's try that we'll try and do that um but yeah it's just frustrating nothing more than that and I don't know if it's just people's way of there's not really much news at the minute or positive news at the minute so they're using this as as an opportunity to jump on some positive Bitcoin crypto news um but it I just feel like it's it's not real so what you were saying last week there wasn't about there's fake people creating sort of like fake news to Hype everyone up but the reality is it's it's not it's just all [ __ ] let's focus on something real yeah let's be honest about the fact that it's actually about to pay not Bitcoin and if and what's the again binance and actually said what like you were saying before what's finance's reason for that I'm saying this Trojan Horse route but I'm that's me trying to find the only thing I can find them defending binance in some way um but they have not seen them comment on anything to do what I am as to why that's happening and what's going on there so maybe they should I don't know why you're laughing I'm sorry I know what problems we have with the microphones and when Molly goes like it's really snorts again hey Dave at least I'm here right yeah showing up uh I completely agree with you Danny I I it is very annoying I do blame some of the Publications first and foremost for putting them out as Bitcoin accepted articles I don't know if it's like shoddy journalism or just like do they actually know what they're writing I think that is just modern day journalism not validating not understanding well we have I haven't gone on to read the actual articles that they stated in the Articles and it's just the tweets that the not from the ones I've read I mean they've done a few this is gone being happened since October I think and this is for us definitely seen one where they say it's like it's Finance pay and then it's like a you have to transfer like a BNB coin or something I thought I'd read that somewhere but they don't say that's a bad thing and the ones that I've read They're not saying that you're still because it's still not Bitcoin regardless of what whatever they're saying it is they can call it binance pay all they want but that's still not Bitcoin so the headline of these except Bitcoin is just a lie but it's the same as can't you do that with PayPal now because you've got deduct from your Bitcoin balance exactly that yeah so anyone that has Bitcoin which is right that's why I'm saying Tesco with Visa you can get a Visa backed card that's you can top up with Bitcoin and go and spend it anywhere in the world to that excessive Visa so all of a sudden everywhere accepts Bitcoin and if you're talking it like that it's not the same adoption um it's just a lie cool let's not fall for it guys anyone listening help educate other people on that if you can spread the word bis general manager Augustine cast Carstens claims Fiat has won the battle against crypto I have no idea who these guys what does bis stand for did I miss this yeah the bank of international settlements he's the head dude there I don't know who he is he is but basically they're the central bank for all central banks and they're encouraging more lack of just a bit more unity in central banks and you know unification of policy for cbdc so he's a big cbdc um proponent and puts a lot forward of innovation in bits and pieces and he said that fear defeated cryptocurrency is a utility what this quote was like technology doesn't make for trusted money which is a bit funny because Bitcoin and Bitcoin is completely trustless yeah yeah so he's yeah he's got points it's kind of backfired yeah so it's about encouraging fair enough his role's you know encouraging them to work together get more people Bank the unbanked is one of the big policies as well why wasn't it doing this 30 years ago well this is the thing really I was looking at that Innovation because they've basically in this report was banging on about Innovation we've got to innovate innovate innovate and you haven't seen much Innovation from a long time and they're happy to allow massive remittance fees throughout the world um but now basically see like Bitcoins come along and said we can disturb that um and now they're innovating and innovating on cbdc so if you look at that they do publish their Innovation list and all the policies that are looking at and like five to the last six all in the last six months are all cbdc they're related so if that's where they're going it's all about programmable bits and pieces and if we look over the history they'll say over the last 20 30 years of the stuff they put out I've not looked at this so I'm just guessing here if we've looked at things they put out saying we're innovating renovating they put a message out saying that because they just have to be seen to be innovating and doing them things well that's what I thought how many of them things over the last 20 30 years have actually played out and they've made use of right so with the cbdcs does it begin the same scenario actually they're just it's the Hot Topic right now so they say we need to innovate on cbdc's let's go and pretend we're doing something but their Innovations like committees on um robustness of cbdc's and how it can play out so I suppose yeah but I'm sorry it's really hard to quantify whether that's well this is the point is it successful or not 20 years ago was it the same scenario um did they have the whole thing about how I'm saying 20 30 years I'm thinking internet that they have the thing of oh yeah we need to figure out a way to be able people to be able to pay on the internet better I don't know I'd have to look back but in my head that would start to make sense and what did they do in that time period to help the internet out with payments zero private selected it all up that's where PayPal I mean you see them on Twitter a lot I can kind of see why it's the natural enemy of a bitcoiner being the the manager of the Central Bank of central banks and he's obviously quite against Bitcoin and crypto clever ladder um you worked at the MF is it Wikipedia yeah I don't know enough about him yeah if you look at it well I've I've read it and I was like oh yeah partly qualified individual kind of qualified and clever are two different things no but also it's a great career progression all quite early like you know to put into roles that most most would deem for an older person like manager of treasuries and business pieces are quite big Banks well I'm gonna appreciate I think economists are very interesting I do I can appreciate you if you early that's a fair point but basically if he's if his job role is to promote Central Bank digital currencies he is going to be anti-bitcoin yeah they don't really work together but you know they cherry pick this what they called it cherry pick the unified Ledger is what they see like that's his thing the unified ledger so cbdc's like share more information you should blockchain a distributed Ledger yeah sweets on that Shield of another one so obviously it's just everything counter arguments to bitcoin but again this the same people were pushing on blockchain I'm pretty sure because it was him on the blockchain thing like six years ago whenever it was so it's that just because they're pushing it out and hyping it you know it gets forgotten about and they move on to the next one to be seen to be doing something this is probably the first time in history where there's a genuine competition well I was about to say that that's a good point because it is that I think it's I'm not all right now we've got to innovate oh we've got to push down fees because there's another option previously they didn't have to watch this so to be seen to be doing something that's what I think it is it's the the competition of Bitcoin and it's brought out some movement in them so that would be interesting to see how they play out I'd like to go back if I had a chance to go and see their old historic well yeah you can get the you know Innovations listings I get to go back well into the last few years at least 20 30 years ago I'm not sure that's what I'd like to see you'd like to see what should we do in 20 30 years ago what were they doing to help you we're probably saying they sent that is not the right thing we don't need this yeah distributed technology Source we can either unified yeah for all the banks to use and only the banks that's exactly what it used to be internet I know it used to be use the internet not we're showing outrage there aren't we we are but that's the truth yeah schools had intranets so you could control them yeah and it's just soon for another window we still technically do it's just a local network isn't it yeah you still all have the books I forgot we're in a room full of developers no they don't people have the internet or nothing they have access all the Internet connected computers have access to the internet as well that didn't used to be the case no like old school intranets it used to just be connected to the local network I think yeah um back in your daily um but yeah times change my day did you use floppy disk I was talking about yesterday actually do you used to use floppy disk when you're younger that's like something that I'm sure you guys we didn't use it I mean they were still getting used and yeah they yeah I mean I did use floppy this I remember like there was like computer games like Championship managers to have seven yeah it's a lot and you had to load up with your clothes when you get to a certain party if you wanted to Toronto from division one a player from div one yeah to look at the the one was in separate dates yeah it was just about even when CD-ROMs came around you used to get games where it'd come with like four CDs have to install three or four discs I remember that was it the PS1 memory card was like eight megabytes yeah yeah I used to have a memory card of course to save games and things for your memory cards yeah it's a good day the good old days spend hours and lose your memory card it's like no yeah [Music] lost yeah um moving on yeah uh another coinbase one staking to eat what time well we we've we've been going for quite a long time conscious we've got quite a lot to go through um has anybody care to talk about coinbase is staking yeah fundamentally different Krakens of course it is yeah fundamentally yeah fundamentally is that why they can get you look at the fundamentals is that why the legal proceedings won't stand up as a that's why Kraken they've already settled on theirs so but there's coinbase is fundamentally different sort of legal arguments totally different right they are saying that that's not fundamentally I've not read it but well I'll give you the definition now if you'd like definitions we like in this podcast um they are saying it's uh the customer always has control of the staked coins and the keys I think the keys didn't Define the keys as well or not um but they're saying they always have control over the state's funds whereas it cracking kind of goes into a pooled one I think the same and then States but I'm not quite sure how technically it differs that would mean the rewards are going directly to them as well that's kind of what they're talking about yeah that they go directly to the customer rather than to coinbase who take of court and distribute coinbase not make you lock them in for a period Well if it's on ethereum it has to be lots yeah how do they still have control if it's a long they're taking its Court I think I need to try and argue that um so I don't know see how it plays out we'll come back to that and then I'll probably about six months did our Gary reaffirm that Bitcoin was the only security again did that recently I saw the headline but I've not seen the comments or anything no no everything else is security except for Bitcoin if that came around again didn't it yeah yeah at the weekend yeah has anyone seen the actual comment though I'm saying I just saw that no no I just assumed he did say it again but you might try to take it out maybe we can come back maybe just some Gary ganza some massive accounts just retweeted and retweet it again it could be here because to be fair it gets retweeted that often and it does he must be saying it all the time every other word Gary all right we get it you like Bitcoin um well Mike is looking for that German Bank uh German DZ Bank ads digital currencies to Asset Management Services this is the institutional customers isn't it I think um cool who started who was that I did because I thought it'd be good to touch I thought you guys might have read it but I didn't either so I'm not trying to read any of them it's bullish though legit amazing it's interesting um yeah I like it when any institution gets involved I think yeah absolutely it's a good sign it has legitimacy in the eyes of the lore in some respect but it also adds barriers to entry and institutional level regulation and things that cause the lack of innovation and squeeze Innovation and squeeze things going forwards and squeeze control so it got a lot from that little yeah non-red article yeah that's fair enough but end of the world yeah that's pretty much the what it comes to I think um that's why we're Thailand I guess because some of it exactly that it looks sounds bullish and again people are jumping on it the news jumps on it everything's great oh it's amazing institutional sometimes these things that seem good and not necessarily good um you need to I guess weigh up what that means and what empathizing on the industry what we're seeing with regulation and the way regulation squeezes Innovation historically not in this industry but in every industry it always does squeeze it and slows it down in particular and so and it squeezes out the small players creates bigger barrier to entry so you can't innovate so the big guys create a mode effectively eventually but does it give more trust to bitcoin emergency bigger institutes coming like this and you know that they're regulated and you know the regulation in the eyes of the law so man on the street man on the street I don't know is the question because I don't have to even care and understand a lot of the time as long as you can give them a product that is good and better than what they currently use that's all they care about I don't think most of them care about the trust and like our industry might because we pay attention to that side of things the man on the street in my head adults in the care I don't think they care to even learn about yeah otherwise we would they wouldn't be I guess using there would already be you have Bitcoin right yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's one of those you don't realize you need it until you're directly affected by the current system where Bitcoin is superior at that point yeah and it's like the whole um one of the things of the Europe Bank in the UK for example your bank's insured to 80 000 these days um for your personal money in there they think a bank goes bankrupt you've got um some form of insurance that um majority of people are not aware of that yeah yeah I'm sorry yeah um but yeah that's exactly that most people don't understand that still and they're not aware of it um and even if they are they don't understand what that means it's kind of like what do they they'll still put the money in the bank account they don't think it's worse about it but I suppose depending on their that German banks um methods like a lot of stuff they might just create a portfolio of Investments for um a savings account or something like that or use their funds that's just a mechanism to help them use it right is it is that a retail platform that lets people choose where they're investing don't see what I mean is it just a choice thing or is it a mechanism to help a bank actually okay it's more exposure to bitcoin when that has been quite restricted previously don't know the answer all right but the other thing that okay if you want to throw in things like okay trying to spin a positive on that I know um trying to but this is this is where I say it's black Dave says it's why isn't it yeah yeah and he would say it's black um he'd be in a dark room but that's the difference Banks operations Banks operating fractional Reserve yeah if we've just seen how good that played out for Bitcoin with FTX is that really what you want again okay not saying the banks are gonna well some banks have Bank rooms and that's what happens that's what Bank Run is so you know we could end up in similar situations to that um yeah but you've got the bank of international settlements sorting out all the central banks central banks that's the last resort that's a fair point actually yes yeah all good all happy days we've been off skipping yep um but yeah is that a massive negative as Banks start to to weigh in and there's a there's a theory actually was it that put a theory out of um but the point it's the thing of the price oh it's willy-woo um so he's done a thing of uh trying to explain that he doesn't think the Bitcoin price will go up to a certain amount because once Banks and everything get involved and you're selling paper Bitcoin effects they can manipulate and hold the price down to whatever the hell they want in theory because they can sell as much of it as they want because they don't have anything backed um so he's his theory is because he used to be very bullish on the price going up and everything but he has this other Theory now that is highlighting that the price may never go beyond like 50k or something again something stupid and because Banks once Banks come in they will then sell paper Bitcoin uh which is what FTX did and that suppresses the price which we think we saw during the RTX stuff didn't we but they can't unless they yeah so unless they had a bank run on their Bitcoins people trying to withdraw Bitcoin yeah then they'd have to actually get yeah and at most of the places you can't withdraw no so it's like your paypals and your etoros and things like that where you can't really would you have to convert so you'd have to then sell it to Fiat and they're just they've arbed in the background to hedge sorry in the background um to make sure they've not gained a loss or anything and so yeah yeah so I mean you can't get away from that the bank banking is literally full of that so the more Bitcoins ingrained in it you can get away from that people go and only use Bitcoin services that are 100 fully collateralized business not via a bank that operates fractional Reserve but just ask everyone education yeah to the public that you've got to try and somehow come over we have to make a better product than any bank can offer to attract people to us and and continue to operate with them that's how we destroy HSBC that's exactly how HSBC it's like it's weird that every coin Corner plan just ends with that the flow diagram is always and that's how HSBC dies [Laughter] Magazine on February 23rd he said everything other than Bitcoin falls under the sec's remit and then he added the other crypto projects to Securities because there's a group in the middle and the public is anticipating products uh profits based on that group so it was like I've said a million times that was 23rd is that Friday Friday yeah Thursday uh Thursday yeah so it was fairly recent and I guess yeah you said it before you go yes you see Bitcoin only hmm just take they need to put that into practice don't they um you say that to everyone I've got mates who have you know what do you call it do you call them eat heads how many times you brought up the house oh my God I'm sick of saying it yeah I might as well carry a printed like copy my wallet the amount of times I bring it up to people when they're mentioning this coin that coin I'm like push it along the table run it past that and tell me it's still legal but if they they need to the governments need to put that into place it's like you know because we can't practice what we preach I guess in some ways because we have like or an ethereum still on the platform but um how we obviously we don't mention that no but we've got a harder handle when it's something like that policy of open honesty from Danny yeah but the point the story on that is public we know we've explained to people a million times what happened there we were um pressured into it by a potential investor um at the time we added them and we found it if more difficult to remove them than we did we removed uh xrp was it three years ago now and we still have customers that we just can't get hold of to give them their exercise you're trying to give it back to him and that is the pain we need to we do need to get rid of it but um it it gets ingrained in your systems and there's technical debt and overhead everywhere throughout the system I'm trying to think of it is it Boo Radley from To Kill a Mockingbird was it or someone like that where they would like lock them away in an attic room or something like that is it I don't think of that but you know like you this store and they just hide them away in the old the 20s that's why yeah yeah it's that thing but that's like our relationship with those coins that are on our system you just want to talk about it don't Market them basically it's easier though for us to not remove them because if we remove them it creates a massive overhead for us of contacts and customers and going through this process and removing technical debt and developments we have to do it's it's easier just to let them tick away and don't drive anybody to them and they're hidden in the background which is the relatives were really don't invite him to Christmas but as soon as the ussec if any of them they do eventually declare that as a security we would have no we would be pushed into doing that hopefully we'll remove another before but again it's time to our priority list wouldn't it yeah yeah um because we would have to he would go to jail otherwise well we know eventually that it will come to the UK it'll probably follow suit and everyone else will follow you I think we should leave them on oh I'm with you uh it's I keep telling our gaslights there's someone's gone okay um but yeah you know we we also need to own them things as well don't we need to deal with them um as we can and at the minute as we've said we need to revisit that at some point but we're focused on doing Bitcoin things and driving that forwards um with as little distraction as possible but we have made movement such on the album with you now by default as a new customer you don't see them I think not not yet you can turn them off yeah yeah you can turn them off but again yeah it's technical overhead to do that that's what I'm talking about hidden away fortunately yeah they will be disabled by default once you become a new customer and you have to go into your settings and enable them if you wanted them so then by default you will be Bitcoin only into coin corner so that's the first step in stone to removing them as a Bitcoin called the news on Tech again unfortunately good you'll get there eventually um right Marco I like that talks Marco spoken too much I feel like we've we've lost you know momentum at this point here we go who's Marco Marco I don't know um it's never stopped people long-standing Bitcoin contributor and maintainer it's actually got the most commits to bitcoin call how many are you talking it's thousands of thousands thousands yeah okay as decided it's a long way again back it up yeah oh move on to other things um what's been supported over the years with a few grants I think um still has a grand does it still has an active Grant I think yeah um didn't really say why I have to assume it's again the whole core does getting sued yeah and people alluded to that yeah which is a shame he's done incredibly so over the last few years we've seen quite a few corders move on um which I was initially worried by but then me and Danny had a look at like Bitcoin core and GitHub actually noticed there's a lot more new people coming in as well so as these older heads are disappearing these new new um contributors are coming through yeah there was one like in the last year already that's done like 200 commits or something and he's only just started like a year ago and he's committing and jumping in so there is lots of course Marco's top contribution he's had his hands in all the pies well he'd sign them all off as well yeah does not like a main one that that that's Marco I don't know I can think of the problem is but I don't know because I could do a thousand commits and all be Loki commits in the Pod let's do one first sounds like the AMF all over again we could make this cbdc however but yeah so it's sad to see because obviously you want these older or more experienced guys to stick around for the for those advice to guide the fletchlings yeah and also I think a big part of the industry developer-wise probably skipped Bitcoin core went straight onto lightning so there's a lot online contributors um and probably Bitcoin core is probably still quite lacking be nice to encourage more people so but this is where go to bitcoin can talk about um a small cification what is that the word ossification classification classification Bitcoin course are like because you mentioned that previously that actually is is it done and is it now all Layer Two I think we get to the point where I think a lot of people have started to I think gone about three or four years people were saying like you know maybe 2025 was I think people were thrown around as like ossification starts to kick in because yeah you're getting to a point where the base layer is just tweaking and changing things there is still there's a couple of things still to come isn't it I think before was it Adam actually Adam back that's right you just got away there you have to cut that noise out as well sorry why are you hating on Mikey this week because he's gonna hate on you I'm sorry should I just get up should I just go I think it was was it Adam back saying about yeah I think one Simplicity is completed and a couple of other bits then he sees ossification then there's a not positive thing but a thing that can happen yeah um it all kind of depends a little bit as well there's a few things that need to go in to make lightning better but then how do you just there's a lot of arguments around that how do you stand on improving the base layer for a layer two should it happen should it not um but yeah so I I don't have a strong opinion I would say on the ossification of it at the minute and where it's at I think there's still there is obviously clearly a lot yeah I still think we're far away but the amount of arguments going on and in fighting of we should do this we should do this the more chefs the worse it gets there's going to be a big part of that and once it becomes more and more mainstream then you can handle more chefs I mean there's still like basically world wars going on about how even how to do these soft Forks speedy trial and stuff yeah there's still arguments going on with that um so thank you Marco everything yeah yeah a lot of these guys just get burnt out to be honest I'd I'd be intrigued to see if they come back with uh pseudonyms so yeah don't come back as themselves and they come back Anonymous to continue um would be my thought process that's what I would do if I was in their shoes yeah but I mean all those contributions are just obviously starting at zero just come back as a series but there is people out there there's a lot of them not that single commit and they do know a lot more than a lot of other people because yeah it's open software go and read it don't understand it a lot of people put their time in just to comment and help other people around it but they don't write the code themselves so yeah it could end up being people just think he's one of them and he's been lurking for us really I might do more working in there I was gonna say that sounds like a youth thing you know like common but never do it don't do any of the Dirty Work no just like almost like a puppet master behind the scenes here we go take some of the credit yeah yeah all it turns out is all my ideas 2524 commits he had Wow since mid 2015. thank you Marco good luck yeah he's not thank me for any of my puppet Mastery behind me because most of the time messes up when I have to come in why has this happened um Brazilian Argentina where are we 50 points that was an opinion piece should we skip yeah because it wasn't that wasn't actually news that was an opinion based cbdc we've done over and over let's move on Montana State passing the right to mine Bitcoin bill voted 37-13 that's a very bullish Bitcoin uh committee there Senate um are they not traditionally a state that would be anti-government anyway in terms of government involvement organized liberal states they're not so they're not so much Liberals are they they're just like let's say fair in terms of questions yeah exactly the right to bear arms I reckon but that's an assumption I don't know much about Montana states in America where there's like anything that alludes to government control it would certainly not get through I don't know enough on that so I don't know I know Yellowstone sir National Park is that what you're going to tell me yeah you know that's your contribution that's my contribution to Yellowstone one of the world's most famous national parks it's a national park in Montana you didn't mention this I kind of thought it was irrelevant but no how wrong I think that's quite relevant yeah of course these Cowboys you know that's what goes on um the right to mine Bitcoin uh that's nice I did not say positive one anyway um uh more IMF stuff should we skip that as well God you want to talk about the ordinals don't you oh we can't yeah the IMF stuff's slightly interesting they set out like a nine a nine point remit on how how government should deal with crypto and then number one on point one of the nine was don't make it legal tender they're telling all countries not to do it I was just the thing going around about then yeah Salvador uh kind of reaction isn't Argentina's bailout plan last year the IMF specified they had to take an anti-crypto stance there's another one of them just recently wasn't there who's the other country at the minute um there's another country that have done the same thing saying don't make it legal tender who's that so they're suggesting it to all the countries under the IMF yeah so it's their other the policy if you like so all these countries have to like follow this plan and it's all pretty much empty until until Bitcoin do not make Illegal Tender but El Salvador a technique I don't know people argue to and for all of that whether it's becoming a positive thing for them to have done at the minute I still still think it is positive for the problem is some of these countries like that haven't got control of their Sovereign currency currency anyway like they're they might use the USD so they're talking about not undermining your Sovereign currency as a country but but if you don't have one exactly it's already getting you're doing control of it anyway yeah it's a little bit strange really but that's us controlled A lot of it was in there well this is only Survivor by keeping these countries in debt right to get those massive interest payments keep out churning over so if there's a root 2 you've got to stifle it I'd like to see an El Salvador 2 and somebody else the second person comes along and it needs to be someone's I guess more significant somebody under the MS a little bit more significant as well of El Salvador insignificant no I'm saying like not like the Isle of Man doing it and there's like 80 000 people here so Isle of man's insignificant in terms of population he's definitely calling someone yeah no I'm not causing them insignificant calling them insignificant but the country's tiny 80 000 don't count on a global scale how many people I mean even in Manchester how many people live in Manchester Manchester City what 500 000 people or something yeah I get what you're saying so you want you want right who's next I've got to be slightly better they've got about six million El Salvador so you want something you know towards 10 million region someone this week all those videos about the El Salvador prison what the hell is going on there is this like like moving people around but they had to crouched and like this is what's been happening last two years or something since have you heard the right prison cells do you ever watch porridge or yeah you'd have your cell mate you'd have a now you're showing your age Dave I know you're talking about these guys it looked like oh I've got my cell got my star just read to me it sounds like a nice break you're quiet yeah but these prisons like in one cell they'd have a hundred people it'd have two sinks and two toilets that's that these that's a modern prison in El Salvador that's what they're all moving to do so that's hideous isn't it I think yeah well he's got it like mostly it's not supposed to be nice no the victorians thought that and like there's no reform whatsoever but actually you've got it even right yeah there's there's nothing I did actually what to documentary about their prisoners in Sweden and it's more of like a rehab yeah you have to think they're like when you're saying that human rights and stuff at what point you give up your human rights like if you're in for oh well of course yeah but by being in prison you're giving up a human right because you've got you're forced to be in one place but if you're in there for murdering seven people you know should why should anybody care about their human rights should you not forfeit them I mean we're going off on a hell of a time I know but there's different scales obviously there's you've got Case by case but you just think there has to be an element of Reform you can't just have prisons with like 100 people in the cell than there was is about worse prisons in the world it's great um I can't remember who who does it but it's in a few of them yeah it's not him it's the guy you got put in he's known in the UK for again put into jail for a crime he didn't commit well I don't know I can't remember what he's on the parlor on a podcast yeah I also read a horrible book about Thai jail about and then someone yeah awful stuff going on not somewhere I want to visit don't don't make it quiet man okay don't make it crying so that's Molly to all prisoners if you don't want to go forever there's different scales there's people in their backs like mistakes but this should be an element of Reform yeah I should think I don't know anything about performing people I think it was a hell of a controversial subject so if you saw that yeah can you see it on Twitter with um what's his face tweeting it uh Gladstone um it's all it's Gladstone tweeted it and he was trying to defend the prisoners wasn't he he wasn't defending him he was saying that's like human rights you give it's like abusing human rights and they shouldn't really be doing that I think was kind of his angle but then everybody jumps in the back of him saying like why are you defending criminals why like they're gang members what about all the victims of them gangs where things have happened and it turned into a hell of a he was I think he got to a point himself where he was like this has turned into a controversial thing I'm kind of giving up and saying trying to argue about with people I think what he what angle he's gone up there there's a nuanced argument I guess of there's bad and there's worse than bad as you two things there isn't it and there's no there's no right or wrong answer there's no good in any of that scenario there's bad and there's badder and it's kind of like bad is like in a wood but you know I mean they there's no right or wrong answer there there's no it's very controversial it's very opinionated it's very difficult to say you know yes the human rights have been waved in some way by these guys being gang members and doing whatever they've done but then if you're trying to defend that what about the victims of whatever crime they're in there for and so on so it's like yeah how how do you well that's why the UK always focuses on people that was it commit recommit I don't know like in terms of how long they're out and then they commit a crime again then that's always that's the fact that was in Focus because you want as many people as not coming back to jail as possible right yeah so I don't know and you can see why Gladstone's involved since he's yeah yeah his human rights society yeah a lot of abuse on it though because it's like well actually which in some ways I'm not saying abuse the guy but like actually you're there saying about whatever on social media and stuff but okay stop saying this is wrong this is wrong this is wrong tell us what's right tell tell people what should be done there yeah rather than highlighting all these things are terrible and it's bad against you like turn around and tell them what should happen to solve that problem then because that problem clearly has not has been struggled to be solved for how many decades now yeah and the Kelly's gone in and said right we're going to just arrest anyone in the gang and bring them all in and do that and that's his way to try and solve it and it might not be the the it might be a nice scenario but is it the better of two evils or the lesser of two evils so I don't know I don't know I'd have answers so um back to bitcoin then guys why are we talking about prison prison reforms and get me off on a rant about something I have no nothing about no I mean at least you drive Gladstone into the whole thing throw him under the bus we had a Bitcoin Lincoln somewhere um yeah well done with that but yeah that's is what it is ordinal ordinal inscriptions are less than 1.1 percent of Bitcoin minor Revenue I don't know what time scale that's over it's anybody else was that over the I don't know month so so is this is there a few questions where's the where's the revenue come from then in terms of is there a there's not a cost to inscribe ordinals is there or is this just there is a cost to Instagram on this it's the minor fee yeah for your transaction oh yeah but there's no additional fee right so how are they no so how are they they're trying to identifying the ordinal fee transactions bigger between what the fee would have been and what the fee is no no you can see all the fees that are not got inscriptions attached to them yeah all the fees that have got descriptions attached to them and then just work up so you can take a block say in this amount in mining rewards okay I'm just wondering how they're working out inscription you can work that out very factually okay yeah yeah and he just used his own note and it was just for the last three days so over uh the 21st 22nd and 23rd of February is on 0.1 and it had gone up to and this is showing up to the 11th of Feb and the highest I got to was 0.7 uh subsidy um in the block yeah or not or just the fees yeah I don't know if you didn't State he just tweeted it within a graph no sauce Pierre is usually good at running the numbers that's what he does yeah it's just we can't criticize some articles and not others for factors to tweet yeah you're right though you're right yeah you're right though it's an influencer tweeting and stuff there yeah it needs to be accurate I think he's factual it's a shame it's only over three days I'd like to see that over there maybe um and see what that works out because we have had a spike we saw but we were talking last week weren't we on the mempool coming down to next to nothing again sort of spiked for a very brief period and back down to nothing is it over already is the interest gone it's even there really was it really how many you actually get minted not how many probably like see from that spot like it was just a little hype in what was quite a boring Market at the moment which is again people looking for something anything yeah it's turned Darkness yeah foreign jpegs on the blockchain um cool do we have um or was that it literally we're just saying that ordinals are over because the revenues mine is making sure so much improve otherwise nah I just think I mean that sort of stuff doesn't interest many people does it that you can inscribe little bits and pieces no it's really Niche well it never it only interested other people because you can make money on it a lot of people thought they could make money on it that was what they jumped on it never the amount of people are actually interested but um sorry for cutting you off there Dave that's amazing yeah uh someone sold in the description and it contains some of some code written by Luke Dash Jr but he wasn't involved in it at all and so he was moaning about that which I thought was interesting because he's the author of that yeah oh so that source code essentially so you're trying to claim someone else sold it to someone else yeah it was like the Tweet Jack the first ever tweet or something Jack did and then Jack ended up selling up I think someone else had already sold it before and that they tried to but then didn't get attention until chapter yeah so yeah we're seeing all the same [ __ ] that happened on nfts ethereum just I wonder if I wonder if I minted like Nike's logo and used it in a way that because then it's kind of copyrighted isn't it you wouldn't be allowed to do that somewhere What on YouTube what would you do with it would you be allowance it's on the blockchain and then can I would you be allowed to sell that yeah if I sell that ordinal to somebody with that inscription Nike logo in there who's that assumably copyright yeah yeah off their logo but also like well yeah but Luke asked you and you heard on that yeah but no but that's protected Junior's code I presume it wasn't no no but well Danny's in case he would just be selling Bitcoin to someone he doesn't even need to know it has this ordinal attached because you might end up you've accidentally got an ordinal and then it totally depends how he sells it does it not as if he's selling it as Nike's logo yeah or if he's just in a big difference oh do you want to buy this just have a look at it yeah the ordinal blockage selling second-hand Nike shoes against making Nike shoes to sell big difference wouldn't be protected in terms of this code well it's how does he even know it's his was it a specific I can't remember the problem is probably yeah right it's just about anyway interesting anyway go to the vaguely interesting spoke about it for 15 minutes um there's no there's more well there's more on there but no I think we've kind of an hour right cut that off um Corner News coin Corner News and Merchant of the month oh no yes Dave says ask you every week to bring it make some news Dave that's not how the accounts department will work last night I'll detect Department away yeah have we got any news [Music] yeah trying to bring office Mandarin um other roles at the minute not yet this will be more coming soon um no we're just busy aren't we just heads down cracking on I think that's pretty much it overall ill because we're working hard I mean it sounds like the bank of international settlements is innovating harder than we are right now it sounds like undoing we don't have any Innovation reports about nothing we whisper about big things there we go it's quite a nice Mikey that's a nice little cinnamon to end on isn't it well we whisper about big things yeah it's hardly glowing endorsement are we doing one of our clients though sure you're gonna take some live on no I'm not oh okay CBD but what is it CBD oil who's the client hurts hemp her attempt get your cannabis oil it was quite light yeah let's be going through it what's it do for you um it's all sorts of things to ingest it any mouth spray a pianos is it for the throat under the tongue yeah is that what you spray it yeah everything CBD oil is normally useful that's just CBD oil so it can be for a variety of things yeah what do people what do people what do people wear Mikey just Google what CBDs appetite chill yeah do they yeah we just might take that home then give it a try see I don't want to sleep like now now be the wrong time but like you know yeah I never switch off at night I always I would need stuff like that see if that helps yeah check on try it out and then come back next week I'll do that yeah I'll give a sleep review you like it yeah I'll do a sleep chart for the day another week see how many hours I can get in yeah CBD oil these days is quite popular or becoming more and more popular um we do have a couple of merchants selling that hurts amp is one yep except in actual Bitcoin acceptance payment so people with any sort of Bitcoin wallet can go and use them pay at their website no exactly that that's not using lightning as well use lightning as well bot Cod work uh technically yes yeah um you'd have to use Android yeah use the bolt card on an Android phone and tap one bag on the website it's the future all right happy days here we go cool about big things again this way imagine you just resort to doodling yeah I was just sorry I was um I have not tweeted at all this month I know your stats are going to be terrible yeah I was just telling you before like it comes out that's bad isn't it that's terrible kicking you off Twitter then Dave right box I have to get some in you've got someone tagged us the other day I think they tagged me Danny and Zach and then [Music] That's how little you've been tweeting that was great yeah because I was happy together and couldn't find me and Dave yeah that's not good I'm surprised to be fair at least he said and Dave too yeah I'm so happy it just left you as Dave and didn't take it yeah well that's why losing followers no tweets that was honestly right though thank you for that not from you I'm thanking the person who wrote that yeah it was nice wasn't it yeah nice little rail Dave's few minutes on this he would be very happy with that it's a full day right yeah back to doodling thank you very much guys cheers guys cheers peace [Music] foreign