BOLT 12 Breakdown | Britcoiners by CoinCorner #91

Join Danny, Zakk, and Dave for this weeks ramblings. Topics this week include: Bitcoin price, Dave reviews "Alchemy" by Rory Sutherland, US debt, Bitcoin Tower in Dubai, Ray Dalio hoodwinked Dave, Coinbase: "It's time to update the system", Electricity price goes negative in Finland, Bottlepay to close down, CoinCorner news, and a BOLT 12 breakdown. Subscribe to our new Britcoiners YouTube channel: This episode is sponsored by CoinCorner ( - A global leader in Bitcoin and Lightning services.

  • Youtube icon
  • Spotify icon
  • Apple podcast icon
  • Fountain icon
  • Twitter icon
  • Facebook icon


[Music] yo right you're not gonna call back I'll clap don't worry back thanks another week no Molly no Molly because she's ill she did come in today barely and she looked rough don't she no wonderful well no wonder she's gone Dave's I saw her I was like whoa the first one let's see if she walked through the door yeah it was a bit worse than that actually wasn't it oh yeah that was a nice version yeah yeah you know when someone looks rough you gotta tell them yeah yeah he's gone home already it's because you what you said so yeah it's a no Molly um nope so bitcoin price this is wrong Mikey I'm not dead yeah set me up here uh we're at twenty seven thousand eight Twenty Eight Is it 28 now it's broken it's just broken you know why that is live price why we'll get on to it in this could it be to do with the default um live prices 27 990 unfortunately 27 990. well can you tell me what's up is the footsie up but it is yeah sorry but that's up I also reckon that's up a percent or so without having this done 0.4 tubes down yeah it's an updates that'll be from last week that's one day uh we'll be down yeah did it open up though that wasn't what you said okay don't move the golf I was not oh yeah I'd have to I'd have to okay this week agenda that ceiling uh Dubai first Bitcoin Tower um coinbase and it's time to update the system Hong Kong open up to uh retail audience again um bottle pay shutting down and electricity services in electricity prices sorry in Finland going below zero crikey which we've just had a debate about even possible yeah we'll get onto that we'll open up that debate again defying all logic where none of us have an answer yeah I'm reading a really good book at the moment called Alchemy I told you about it last night you should get on it it's about how we uh everything right coin call is pretty logic driven so this is taken how long Mikey before Dave's gone off agenda no I heard your agenda yeah Alchemy is about so it's from a marking point of view how sometimes you have to abandon logic sometimes just logic doesn't make sense yeah and then so we're logic driven a lot of data they're bits and pieces but he's saying that most some a lot of the successful stuff you can't judge human um reaction yeah human reaction would be a good way based on based on you know data from the past yes it is his logic think outside the box but now people it's more like the case studies examples of stuff that has worked which really shouldn't work if you applied logic to it and that if the media will work again either yeah basically thinks that were the world in general is probably getting a bit too logic Central it's like everything's based on what we think the date should be but it's data driven these days yeah because there's math State and people are trying to apply scientific theory basically to everything when you just can't it's a really good interesting book I recommend that Alchemy but if you flip that and say what percentage of them successful products versus how many percent what percentage of successful products use logic and the ones that didn't use logic because you're looking at the I assume other studies this is he's a marketeer for 35 years so it's about how probably how to mod a gorilla building stuff yeah not building products or practice no that's what I'm talking about how you Market that he's talking about that the case studies he'll have chosen the ones that have gone outside of logic to Market and have been successful but how many have kept within logic and been successful is it like a 99 actually logic in the one percentage and how many failed during that time so as you always say Dave you need the some kind of data just applied very high level broad sweeping stats like what's successful what's not because it's too hard to measure he he talks about the bicycle like the bicycle yeah you can't trust his case to do that no let me finish the bicycle it's the bicycle itself like scientists still argue about how a Bicycle Works how a bicycle like stays up right so if you were to well logically try and embed that statement there is that true statement I didn't believe it you verified that I didn't believe it is only a couple of years old and it talks about like at a half hour and he decides that I know you might believe this yeah the scientists still argue about how a bicycle works yeah so if you applied logic setting out to create a product unlike the bicycle you would never have made the bicycle yeah you have to have literally have done that they've made it first like trial and error break things Theory rather than saying trust the science it was trust the data to sing The Impossible Is Possible yeah kind of you divide like what works and what what makes sense into what X and Y um chart and then divided by quadrants to see like okay what makes sense and what works is up here so scientific theory but the stuff that works it makes no sense down in the left-hand box I can so it's about that sort of thinking so I could take a good example of that which I think we've spoken about on here before which is uh Quantum Computing and the quantum physics was a theory by Einstein I think was it that it wasn't possible and some scientists wanted to prove him wrong and ended up creating quantum computers because they proved him wrong but they don't know how and why they proved him wrong and they still don't to this day quantum computers work but nobody knows why right yeah yeah you just don't know why and they argue between themselves within the industry they're quite a computer industry about how a quantum computer works because none of them really know why yeah he's kind of scary when you're thinking these computers could just I don't know if they can technically from a physical perspective like explode or do something or you know I just don't know what I guess they don't either yeah he uses a good example about a trump and uh the Hillary presidential campaign like all logic would dictate that Hillary should have won that yeah okay behavior-based things yeah it's a marketing type as well if you look at traditional presidential campaigns yeah yeah it was just like like Hillary would have like in terms of the Mexico one Hillary would never have built or proposed building because you would have used logic or basically economics at the time you know the the the sort of process they used to whereas Trump doesn't come from that sort of Realm and he uses this stuff that may not be sensible but still might work in terms of any he actually got a wall built and he defied all logic really not that that was a good or bad thing like I wouldn't ever say where I sit on that but it sounds mental yeah but it got done and then but then the Hillary wrote for the wall five years prior yeah that's just like in terms of I don't know would you have ever got it done I also don't think you can argue that's against logic because other people that want that war or want trumpers in power would say it's logical to have Trump in power not lots of face so there are certain marketing campaigns that do defy logic it's almost opinion and behavior kind of crossing and all sorts of ways anyway as a logical guy I think is sometimes quite good to have a juxtaposition in the book that says the logic isn't everything I've been I think you've been hoodwinked by this yeah okay well I can tell you scientists argue about the Earth being flat around I can find a scientists my kids know that um um I know where Bicycle Works well it stays upright because of the person yeah I think you'd like that I think I think you'd like it stays all right for the person of course it does if the person has no balance they'll fall off it only with momentum yeah but it's still a person without a person it wouldn't be unstable but we're not coming from an educated opinion once again on this pod pretty logical yeah anyway if you didn't know it you wouldn't never have known it up front the science of it wouldn't have been known so you would never have gone out yeah I don't know yeah has anyone sometimes it's a forget the logic we're okay that's the Pres like what I'm taking away from this forget so now most of our business decisions will be forget the logic yeah Just Go With It flicker coins who happens uh right let's get back onto topic debt debt ceiling yeah so agreement reached we had a lot of topics from last week that we pulled up but all of them are kind of irrelevant now because the debt ceiling agreement we think has been in um I still got to be signed off right yeah it's kind of provisionally reached at the minute it needs to be signed off I think today I assume today um but that removes in short from the information we know or has been pushed out publicly what we see it's been us we're talking about as well U.S debt ceiling um it's been removed for two years completely which is the first time as far as I'm aware ever they've done that you know they've not put them out on it just to caveat what the debt ceiling is so that like the government have a a ceiling of which they can spend up to really a budget right so that they have a pot of money I think it's into the 39 trillions is it not yeah and what and which it'd be really good to show the correct there's a graph going around so if you don't mind actually putting up Mikey at this point we're always trying to put graphs it does it's never do it no do you understand it you've never seen graphs in life where's Pastor how angry not even possible to grab them you can see the uh the debt over the last like 100 years or whatever it's been I think or something and you can see how exponentially it's grown in the last five years let's say so they keep approaching the ceiling and at that point the government aren't have spent all their money essentially there but their bank account is empty and even Yellen was saying by the first of June they'd have no cash left I think that's mental that literally you could it's like like you can't run a company like that you can't run yes I'll just turn up on Tuesday I had Danny sorry mate by Friday we're out yeah so what we're going to increase what at least you do and then raise money yeah like but you literally you know just Butch it just forecast it you know how much you're gonna spend I suppose but they never think about right how are we actually gonna but they still spend more than we generally this is the crisis they're in though it's they are four years yeah but they're not seen as a crisis because they know every time they get to the ceiling they'll just go uh should we just give ourselves some more and they go yeah okay but the graph will help show how like to people how the the exponential increase over the last couple of years has just got crazy and now they're taking a cap off it so there's no limit for two years which I think a big part of that will be did you mention this actually about whether it's for um within the next vote in uh yeah it's next year the election to the election cycle so it can't be confused with it so the build up to the election can be he can spend and do what he needs to do to make it look like this government has done incredibly well of course you win or in this time period which you probably will so we might see a lot of heavy spending to make it look good so he gets uh reelected in the next election a bit of a spiral because they'll be suffering from the same inflationary problems that everyone has like the you know the American inflation is also up not as much as UK but so they're like also they have to keep up with military spending with um China because they have to if they want to keep their status as the world power in the world you know economic leader they have to have the biggest military yeah so they'll be chasing their own tail on that one as well so suspending spending spending and the so now 2025 it becomes another issue but they've made that small step of actually getting rid of a number so they don't have to work within that yeah yeah she's crazy just a blank checkbook isn't it for Biden just to go mad with it yeah and then hopefully get reelected on a pump I think that can happen in the economy because they'll just absolutely spend everything but during the part of the process where they're increasing interest rates and inflation still high in comparison to their two percent Target um and now they've just opened this like say blank chat book up that's crazy for me because they now they still have high interest rates are they going to start to decrease them well actually if they've just opened up this blank chat book and stuff yeah so the inflationary problem actually spirals a bit more yeah it's you know a death ceiling it's just alone it's just another printing method because you're putting more money in the system because it's unlimited now that's what interest rates are already high yeah but they're going to need to continue to increase them which will then kill off probably more Banks like they're in an impossible situation right now if banks have had time to reposition now in terms they haven't they can't come out of the bonds and ones that they're in they're tied in forever and no loss in terms of but who's going to buy them that's that's why the last ones went on because nobody want to buy them debt funding in the why would you buy something at a one percent interest rate or whatever when you can get five now it's just it's crazy No One's Gonna buy them bonds which means then banks are going to go under which means JP Morgan's and the likes will mop up the small ones again as they all collapse but if they continue increase interest rates the banks are going to collapse yeah but I feel like they're I will have adjusted the liquidity positions this isn't but you can't anymore yeah but they can't but how can they adjust something that they have no control over buying less into bonds so they have more actually liquid cash sales so when they have a new coming in but no one's but actually if you look at the numbers of the new gun in the smaller banks have been pulled from the bigger banks have gained so the bigger banks are fine it's the smaller banks that I know that's centralized they're the pranking but uh what I'm saying it might slow down because you've had time to know that this is no no well I'm saying if you look at the stats of that the smaller Regional banks have not had cash going in they've had cash going out so it's only made it worse for them even with time it's not helping them because they've got no cash there and nothing new coming in so they're actually losing which the bigger banks are then taking in so the bigger banks are getting stronger and the smaller more local do you think there'll be a continuation of the centralization of banking it could be less Banks yeah more banks will go under in the US um you've got a combination of everything here it's just it's some I don't have an answer I don't know who Nobody Does that I don't think they have a clue what what they're going to do and how this is going to play out um in all honesty yeah it's scary isn't it is it scary is it just part though because we're part of the cycle of world economy you think you need to look at is this scenario ever happened in the past as far as no this is the combination of high interest rates High inflation and removing the debt seal into unlimited and banks have already just been going under the last couple versions of have it have happened doesn't it the Dutch guilder and the UK pound both through and through and look what happened yeah there is a global Reserve currency which is a long-term cycle part of this process yeah this is that part of that process we've never lived through this in our lifetimes most people are alive so nobody alive has really lived through that particular time period and all live through it being conscious of it and we've never had a Bitcoin alternative no which is the interesting part I guess for me well I think that's why we as Bitcoin as you kind of start looking more and more at the world economy don't you because we see Bitcoin as an alternative and you know a safe haven if you will that is you know separate from any uh National Institution so that's why we keep an eye on stuff like this because I would say and Bitcoin has gone up again since Friday was it was down at 26 I think it was nearly 28 now that increase over the weekend because human reaction to the debt ceiling yeah it's just it's part of that um but for me that still is why it doesn't make a lot of sense why still I think some people are saying why is it as low as it is at the minute it's still not low Bitcoin it's still quite a solid price in terms of what's going on in the world in the market but actually yeah why is that not increasing in I'm sorry parallel you've got to look at why would it be increasing right now in terms of so every time there's a huge correlation with the market and that's why I asked about the FTS uh 100 to see what the market was doing in response to America's stimulus essentially it was is what it is and so Bitcoin always reacts favorably to markets so I would say that's why the price has gone up because literally the people see they'll write the market will be a bit stable for a bit longer now until probably 2025 there will be some boom there'll be Cotillion effect with more money in the system and that drives bitcoin price up as well so we're not people going oh the U.S economies the fourth turning this is all going to end it's not Doom and Gloom it's just like okay this we're all right for a bit yep I can buy more I'm gonna get paid as a civil servant in America so I can buy more Bitcoin but you want to at some point though if inflation continues with the US you're going to want to put your money elsewhere which is then where people think you know Bitcoin and assets and things but sorry my point of where you went to a little bit there which was I'm glad you touched on like the ftse um being UK and it's not the us and is it going to be impacted and how is that the US will it's a global economy and Bruno Mars part however this is the first time again which is what was such on the first time where we've got a currency which is Bitcoin which is genuinely Global and impacted not necessarily just by one country there's movements there's pressure from all different angles well the dollar is genuinely Global yeah the the but the problem is that we're we as individual holders of fear are paying the the price through inflation of America yeah Global they have the global impact because so many people that use the dollar for but they get their own currency as well such as yeah there's such a centralized benefit in terms of like America and their wages are increasing quite rapidly and they get they do get a lot of the benefit of this money printing but and it feels like the rest of the world has to carry the cost into it and they'll Salvador and the likes that have it as their currency who did have it as their main currency don't see the benefits they just see the negatives and but this is why I'm just interested I don't have an answer for this but that because Bitcoin is global and is impacted by not just the US doing this and the us are going to do this and damage the dollar but how that benefits Bitcoin um and if you look at this week I think or this weekend Russia have announced I think they're going to be um pay they're going to be using crypto changes to make payments um for like global trade and stuff um so we've been aware obviously already of Russia and China and trying to come away from the dollar and trying to move to other things they haven't I've not seen any detail of what um that looks like for Russia um and how many people will actually interact with them being sanctioned um so that'll be a different question again but the point is Bitcoin is global so there's gonna be it's not just the us and this is something we've never seen before so I don't have an answer it's just highlighting that no matter what happens with the US here with a dollar and things like that there is other parts at play for the yeah but I don't think enough people realize that how separate the Bitcoin is and that they can be a safe haven a lot of people don't yeah I think so Hong Kong because one of the topics they've just opening back up again aren't they to crypto exchanges and allowing them to get Banking and allowing them to start trading against a retail can start trading them up this week or whatever it is um some new money will flood in and we'll come in um so there is there's always movements everywhere in the world and you're right I don't think people do realize the separation of it um away from The Current financial system fully but for some part it doesn't matter I think because of that I think short term with the cost of living crisis people will be taking their money out of Bitcoin yeah I mean because they won't realize the separation yeah yeah yeah I mean the cost of living process means that you start liquidating all your assets to actually but if the cost of living crisis in the UK yeah but okay not all like that all around the world some part that's why I'm saying Bitcoin is global so it's it we don't know how it's going to be yeah yeah it's not just UK is it but Germany is talking about I've gone into recession though but if you look where most of the Bitcoin Holdings are is it in those areas where where you want to be doing even though Bitcoin is global it's still centralized and it's not the holding essentially a large part of it is yeah I think but not UK with UK is one of the worst hit right now but there is liquid like Zack said there is a liquidating pressure on your Bitcoin holding just to survive like the very first and foremost you've got to buy food you've got like you know you put a roof above your head that's everything's going to go into that because everything else is yeah so it becomes so expensive yeah but only in that's what I'm saying only in like the UK again we can maybe put Charlotte there's a nice little chart I'll share it with you or we'll show you the inflation uh base I think the UK is like the third worst at the moment in the world 20 grocery equations and that's not including the grocery that's just general influence like talking about how there's still 45 year worst food food price Rises so like and they release that today like eggs have gone up in the leftovers well they're disgusting putting caps on food aren't they yeah yeah food price caps I've seen that before and we'll start accusing the supermarket the profiteer and get all this it's just crazy but the UK is is one of the worst in the world right now being hit in terms of inflation and cost of living and things whereas some of the other country Argentina was it was the worst at like 112 it's the UK got rid of all this manufacturing so you can't take a shock because we don't really care and with financial services and we've just had brexit on the top of all the stuff which is then caused I think a bad time for the UK so we're talking cost of living crisis in the UK other countries and just don't probably care and not even aware of it no they're all sad a lot of them are seeing inflation rise but actually if you look at the the stats inflation in terms of the CPI that's what these countries put out yeah the UK is the worst um UK I think was third worst Argentina was top I can't really was second then it was UK and then Germany's pretty bad economy in the world yeah and bought some of these other economies around world and not being as impacted as as we are in I guess the western side yeah I wonder if that's because they manufacture a lot but in economics is coming out isn't it in terms of the America are trying to put more money into their manufacturing policies the labor Shadow Chancellor's just been over to America to say they're going to copy their program and get UK manufacturing again so it becomes uh then it's ultimately the end of globalization they're no longer you sharing and trading and benefiting which country can make the best thing they're traded freely you're starting to all right come back isolationism which is always a problem and pre you know any if you look at any world war event it's yeah Fallen blizzard I appreciate it's a problem there's a lack of you know so it's scary really until the end of globalization we just start manufacturing our own stuff so we can take shocks like this going forward I don't know if that'll happen though maybe does anyone I know it's private it wasn't like private business is just going to go to the cheapest Alternatives and things on yeah they can be incentivized by government in terms of subsidies so if you're just subsidizing factories and Manufacturing and yeah they'll be a fine balance announcement that's what subsidize it enough to make at the same time as yeah but look what state they're in so have they done it at the at the cost of what inflation and money printing they've had to do um so it hasn't worked successfully I have no idea because I don't have another looked at this point well I would like Trump's agenda trumps this whole policy was like 39 trillion in debt and they've just gone on to unlimited as it really worked that's because of debt finances like this is a combination if you looked at the manufacturing parameters they've created more manufacturing jobs as because that's what Trump wanted to do you're talking about yeah control the center frequency is a different thing just because they've created more jobs on the manufacturing side doesn't mean say it's worked just something to say they spent money in somewhere that potentially hasn't worked we don't want to I'd have to look at the numbers and what that looks like but you can see why they're doing it if you want to bring down um inflation one of the things you can do is increase production yeah so that's why both governments are now looking right but we have to increase local production and they've got subsidizers such a heavy level because of the cost you can get it done in other countries a cheap cost and the private companies what I'm talking about there they will go and get it the cheapest place they can not the American side so which unless they can subsidize it but the cost of subsidizing that's going to be incredible surely uh yeah it depends how you do the subsidies in terms of because you can just tax so you could just say like orange juice is a good example in America so they they literally subsidize American by taxing Imports on orange juice from Mexico which would be much cheaper to get orange juice so you then make Mexican orange juice miles more expensive than American orange juice and then all the Americans have to buy their orange juice which increases production in America of orange juice that's just one example if they didn't have that subsidy Americans could have so they're not sizing it they're taxing it yeah and maybe they could have a much cheaper orange juice if they didn't have that but then they wouldn't have this production so that'd be the way yeah which is also taxider yeah which is isolationism which is kind of brexit it's kind of doing that isn't it yeah but without any method without actually yeah yeah so we kind of yeah done that without realizing yeah in some ways the cost has gone up to import okay anyways it's too heavy foreign's best mate known him since you were toddlers Ethan was saying you're because your favorite band's playing at TT oh that's fair you're just gonna you're gonna be at bushies anyway yeah well there you go yeah unbelievable I'll be there for the food man and he's not really leaving anyway you said is he's just moving to the UK so he's still working it's all still working but he's still working he's just moving office yeah so I was like I was threatened Ethan today that you might have the the least well attended leaving do of anyone I'll just boycott it because he's going to the I might be late essentially he's going on holiday then going to the UK yeah so why are we having to leave him so he's not leaving the company no exactly not leaving the company because I'm leaving though on his own that's all that would be cool yeah and no one goes he doesn't deserve it because he's one of the nicest guys ever isn't he sort of what we ought to order as well yeah he has to pick up the Tabs sold out Ethan that'd be hilarious Stitch him oh see if you're right anyway should we go back onto the agenda like nobody cares about about talking about nobody cares about item sure they do right we've got the buy is an interesting one uh Mike if you've got the details for the Dubai developers to build the world's first Bitcoin yeah so I've got a there's an Italian developer called savitol ligiero or something like that is unveil plans for a 40-story architectural Marvel to be constructed in Dubai and it'll be in the shape of a Bitcoin currency symbol so this starts off as quite a nice story but it very quickly um goes down so he closed his vision for the hotel does not fall into the traditional idea of hospitality and it will incorporate various Technologies and sustainable materials with a net zero carbon commitment and this is where it goes explains the blending of the world's hospitality and Chris and cryptocurrency the hotel will offer guests exclusive nfts as Rewards the rental price for a stay at the Bitcoin Tower is not just a payment but also an investment opportunity guests will effectively stake cryptocurrency generating an annual percentage yield that guests can claim so it's basically a [ __ ] coin hotel in the shape of a Bitcoin Hotel it's a modeling again modeling The World Isn't it correct yeah on bitcoin which is frustrating yeah she's not I mean it's going to be in the shape of a Bitcoin that's something they're modeling at the makers to the public the public think that's an old Bitcoin and then the scene is when it's on cryptocurrency yeah the thing they always go back to with anything lies is what problem does that solve yeah it actually creates new problems it doesn't solve anything it doesn't not work it's like a bit of a Innovation Expo I was like well this is it's a game like gimmicky PR option by itself they love they love buildings at shape weird don't they yeah it's like a gimmicky thing yeah that's like bringing tourism so well it's like it's like a real world game in Minecraft if you're building one in a Bitcoin shape so the problem is an architect is just the problem is they need a new shape building more tourists keep throwing them up though but it doesn't solve anything that actually probably just if you've got a stake to stay in the hotel it's just crazy yeah but like what were we talking about I mean the fire's logic but it still might be successful oh the successful side will be for me I I hate when people think like oh yeah it's been successful it's had a successful launch you're three months in anything has a successful launch three months in generally because it's new and it's exciting and people jump on it for me success is the long term but now and how any photo of Dubai he's gonna have a big Bitcoin logo in it because it's a big tower there's not a tower it's probably gonna take 10 years to build this thing no no not in Dubai they do do it fast but it still will take some time it's not going to happen overnight is it um so it raises awareness that's a plus point isn't it it's PR that's what I said yes PR gimmick but the actual the concept of having a hotel where you've got to stay in it you've got State coin it's you're creating new problems that don't exist today for why for what reason um and I don't know what arguments they'll put forward no idea um be interesting to see but they'll probably just ignore them problems you might get a lot of Bitcoin is going over staying at the Bitcoin hotel but you won't want to not when you're fat no everything by an ordinal root no I don't care I'm not interested in it no it doesn't doesn't interest me okay I'm interested in in money and that's interested in money yeah that's so greedy well I'm not interested in having money I'm interested in money um but the point is that you you know Bitcoin solves separating money from State it solved a problem it can now be used globally that you know everything else that's come along never really solves a problem it's not it's fine it's a solution looking for a problem they all are and nfts and all these sort of things and people will always say oh well you know you can put your we've had it for years and years this land deed stuff oh you can put uh an nft uh that owns your Deeds to your house and all this sort of stuff we did this in the Aleman in 2015 on bitcoin it was like it was then a thing and it actually happened and there's a company as well here that did it with shares and issued the shareholding of their company on the Bitcoin blockchain that was in 2015 and the government here allowed that and let it happen because they want to try it and see didn't it was just a pain in the ass it didn't solve a problem it created problems it meant there was new new problems the new ways that we had to do things and how you then get somebody new into the to the deed registry office and they now had to learn how that even worked and what was happening and all sorts it was like what was the benefits versus the the cons or what actually forget the guns what was the benefit of doing that there really wasn't and we knew that time the guy's doing it at the time just wanted to make press for the element is it always going to be harder first time is it not a ux issue well I'll probably be solving there was no problem being solved there like you know you you have a company with the keys well the problem is it not that like um forget the word but a legal entity or a lawyer of access to go between between two uh like an intermediary between two parties making a legal agreement so is it not a fair way to distribute that trust between two parties by putting it on a blockchain that's but somebody had to put it on the blockchain so you did your party to do that I think I can't remember who they did use Law Firm for it I think and yeah actually they didn't want to get rid of any cost well nothing the introduced costs introduced because the record of that agreement you know they used to keep stuff indeed boxes fireproof boxes a law firm is it not a way to keep that uh stored in a decentralized network that no one has control of but that would always be there it is why are you solving yeah the the risk of losing that legal documentation is that so is that a problem now um every day I'm coming out of my legal documents is that a problem let's wasting hours every day yeah he's tampered with that detox you come to sell your house you still have to go through the government to do it it must make many changes it's not you can imagine it being a problem to keep legal documents and fireproof the guy's doing it at a time didn't say much about the fixing a problem they were just doing it because it was a bit PR for the alaman and it was a bit of fun it wasn't solving a problem anyway okay um so you don't think this Bitcoin hotel is solving a problem no I think it's causing it's going crazy it's going to create problems but the point is back in 2015 we and we had people were put in land Deeds on the Bitcoin blockchain and doing it in that sense I come with the constructs of how they did at the end but um we were doing it in 2015 it's still not a thing now eight years later um and people still when you say about nfts and things like that say oh yeah you could do that it's like you could but it was done eight years it was probably done even earlier than eight years ago sorry were you involved in doing anything uh I wasn't no uh it was the government that we're working with here and another party who we know right we didn't but do you think if you would have got behind it no I didn't I chose not to I chose not I stayed out of it it was kind of one of the things it's like why what am I doing so this was a share within a company right and uh the issue in the shares via Bitcoin blockchain rather than doing it via a piece of paper that is written out or you can now do it digital via like DocuSign style things um so if you did it via that it's kind of what's the difference okay um then there just wasn't a big enough there was a solution so it was Titanic almost a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and that's what you don't want to keep going down those Endeavors people are not wearing it's obviously and not aware and you think that this happening and it's probably this building in Dubai is very similar to that well why are we doing nfts again why are we staying I think we're quite cool to stay at the top of the bee with Bitcoins have got involved so when you're paid you would you not rather just pay to stay in it I don't if I'm going to Hotel I want at least hassle as I I can to book in and do that and what if it ends up being like a you can pay in Bitcoin then if I can play Bitcoin after they'll be staking and nfts and all that sort of stuff great then what's the point in the nft in staking because part of the pr they're just adding throwing that in that's because they have to because they have to generate as much interest as possible yeah and there is an nft crowd so it's literally a PR exercise it has a no use it has no problems it's salt sounds a bit fancy to me so we'll book in the next time we'll literally have to so I get really frustrated with this stuff because it's like you were just and it's human behavior what you spoke about at the start it's you repeat the same mistakes over and over again you repeat things over and over again and people mankind has over the years we will always repeat these same problems and same mistakes but they're not exactly like the slides what do they say history Echoes it doesn't repeat so like so it's almost the same mistake but it's slightly more Bitcoin but if then people making their mistakes took the time to look back to history and try and analyze it and say and you're right you can't say it's always going to be the same because your logic would say actually maybe this time it'll work and maybe that's what runs through their heads a lot of the time maybe they've read Alchemy this time yeah this side is red Alchemy yeah but generally I I don't know what percentage you get 95 of the time 99 of the time maybe it will repeat in a similar manner these are the same like we've been through blockchain in distributed Ledger altcoins icos D5 you have yeah as well but the industry has as well pretty OG like most people's average time in Bitcoin it could be three or four years yeah they haven't seen all that no first time around and they're just the only one saying oh banging that drum set it's just a repeat of the problem or an echo at all time but that information's out there they could go and look into that and figure out that you know actually because then you're you're arguing against the whole premise that history Echoes itself no because because that always happens and you we all know it always happens so you're just talking about this Echo so if you if you look back for for example let's let's pick uh blockchain so originally there was we had Bitcoin then we had alt coins and then blockchain became the thing and everyone was like on blockchain blockchain had about six to twelve months maybe where people were jumping all over it and people doing blockchain Concepts and I think IBM was getting involved and all sorts then it kind of died down and it became distributed ledgers and then all of a sudden dislodges would think it's the same thing it was never a different thing they just literally rebranded it and the hype came back around again you should revisit some of those blockchain projects to see what they got to but yeah IBM's is the food chain one yeah and how many arguments I had people about how that just makes no sense and they had no clue but they're like well IBM's doing it must be must be right it must be useful it must be good like that's what r d departments are for they are literally playing around with [ __ ] for the first time yeah that was 2015. pretty much gone no it was 2015 when they started that so eight years later and there's nothing in commercial production or nothing even be the um okay I agree 100 that was Advocate a little over 100 that was Advocate a little bit and if you can't agree 100 give me your percentage well you can say similar you could you could say similar things to digital money start with David charm with the e-cash and after years and years it never worked until Bitcoin came along and it did work couldn't solve the problem though the problem to solved but before that there were several failed attempts yeah yeah that's fine failed attempts is fine but that's saying looking back at history they were still working on the same thing yeah but what with what was the problem they were trying to solve from day one was separating money from State yeah and that was the problem you asked someone with an nft oh yeah they don't know what problem they're solving it's just cool I can make some money on it they don't have a clue what they're trying to solve they can give me a problem they're trying to solve and then you can look at it and say okay well how does it solve the problem you look at it in detail and figure it out not I've got an idea yeah this is my key card yeah I do think most things in the world don't solve problems and are successful there's a lot of things that not everything has to solve a problem uh some things can just be Whimsy yeah entertainment I think there's a lot of successful things you would always argue there's something because people could argue yeah t-solves a problem of being poor people yeah yeah yeah so you can argue it yeah yeah anything let's be sensible and what you know a problem's a problem um well but not everything in the world solves problems that so what hassle We're Not Gonna name every single product now no no yeah just just name one 's like you said it awards for excellence what do you mean what's a product he hasn't solved a problem but they're successful that was well that was an awards thing yeah finding the the most Innovative companies what's the problems around the room yeah that's what I said it's entertainment Soul entertainment it's sold entertainment for everyone yeah like all those are paid for aren't they literally so it's just like a marketing exercise so it's a marketing issue no I agree I'm just saying I don't believe everything I didn't to be successful that didn't celebrate it's all boredom for one night but it didn't solve a problem but also it's no use by next week you can find something that'll be a prime example of something successful that you didn't solve anything a global product is a global use that Global something because you Danny can just go broad base and say it's yeah but you can argue I don't know 10 minutes yeah that'll be is out but you can find something for this hotel You could argue yeah yeah more space yeah more space hotels so we've got this here now that these guys are nft funds and [ __ ] I agree with you I just I just don't think everything has to solve problems I agree with you we need we need one then we need a global thing yeah but that doesn't solve the problem how I was Hoodwinked by Ray dalio I read his book right I've been going over there I read his book I said the last part I was reading this book the principles of um changing world order and it was read by Ray dalio Ray Dali has got a beautiful voice after football he has you listen to right now I was in after chapter one about two about two hours he changes he changes to a new voice actor comes in because that's all right Ray Dalia says oh dude a Time precious I can't read the rest of the book he is here's bloody bloody yeah oh your time more value than mine right so what so he starts reading it gets a voice actor in I'm really quite American voice and I just thought so I've stopped I've stopped listening to him like I thought yeah if you're not you can't be bothered I can't be bothered listening you've already paid for it though he's got me isn't it that's why I felt Hoodwinked but approach sweet sweet Ray dalio voice he has got a good voice I wanted to bring that up so more people aren't hoodwinkle you just stopped I'll stop listening well I'm gonna have to cancel it now and I've not started it yet listen to them you should get a physical book and then in your head you can okay he's reading you could probably put the first chapter through Ai and someone make the rest of the book up in Ray Dalia's voice somebody who's just started a company doing exactly that there will be enough output from our three voices from this pod that we would literally get us to say everything yeah I got I'll seriously there's a program I might tell about it now well it's not for me no no there are some other companies out there doing it as well I've seen Corridor Digital the YouTube channel I watch they they faked their um one of their managers voices and then played it back to him that's quite scary and unethical so should we move back to back to ungeneral topics you know I agree and it's interesting but okay let's get back to bitcoin uh coinbase they did a video like what a TV campaign by the way they've made it sound so raw didn't they because it was like before it was like should I tell people what we're talking about first I'll make them make a video change for you okay so they did a campaign as did I think okay coin on it's time to update the system um which is all about trying to push back on uh governments and regulators and things like that about saying how cryptocurrency can be used and is a popular thing is it not particularly targeted American Regulators in terms of getting it's got more sense because there's a wrinklevoss Twitter at the top targeting Regulators no like in terms of regulations that's a TV campaign for sure it's targeting yeah retail Investments known as pressure on The Regulators yeah yeah how do you tell pressure because they were saying like we'll get back we're behind in um 5G we're behind in this because there's no battery but so they put that pressure via the yeah via retail consumers yeah it's good I don't know if it's going to be on TV it's on YouTube it said TV Adkins yeah okay from them and specifically whilst this election build up there's not much Clarity and there is quite difficult in America because they have like the have you started your sailor course on American politics nearly nearly standing yeah have you enrolled on it okay it's quite a long course so Zach was going to do a sale sailor political science it's going deep on that and uh 200 hours I was going to speak to I was going to do the logic one okay I thought you're not in logic now with Alchemy yeah I'll probably die Mike you're gonna have to be there sorry but anyways that was going to do a like for the reason for the complexity is state and federal law in America it can differ yeah so there isn't Clarity it can get confusing um and that's what Armstrong's uh campaigns about isn't it really oh is he said yes heavy push on the US I think regular but trying to do it via the means of trying to make this public campaign like there's access to retail almost to the audience do you think they'd almost be better going state by state and trying to appease at the state level because you see like the sanus is brought in the anti-cbdc thing already before even but I think some of them are I assume there is I don't know what lobbying behind the scenes there is a lot of it but like Texas are behind it Florida was behind it I think was it uh Montana as well yeah and a quietly behind it there's some random ones that are yeah I would have thought the lobbying book has already been paid in like a lot of States I just it's slightly weird but maybe it's just a final push to get like you say they've gone the lobbying route which is you know not relatively politicians and the who they listen to and now they go retail just to get it over the line yeah it's interesting as well because I think people are seeing that as well from the UK perspective and people we get a lot of people saying why are we not doing that in the UK and stuff and it just for me in the UK politics it doesn't necessarily work quite it's quite clear like our financial system is the Envy of the world it is one of the world's best um our banking infrastructure and Regulatory infrastructure is quite clear and who we have to go to and where the licenses are compared to a lot of we might think it's still burdensome in some cases but it's it's they still are squeezes yeah at the wrinklevost twins came over to London and was and that was but they were saying how clear it is they're also in Ireland it's so wrong day after an island Dubai at all they're in Dubai basically they're pitching where they put the next headquarters they're doing all of that is to fire back at the US and make the US pull the finger out yeah but they're using these other countries and use and play while they're not they're pissing around with us right now at the winter they've gone over to the UK and said oh how amazing the UK is and just to say to the US look at look at these guys these are doing amazing the reality is it's not amazing the the UK still has a lot of issues with it and I only say there's Clarity but Bitcoin a crypto currencies so we still need separation because winklevossel of crypto so they're pulling everything in and saying this is amazing put it all into one roof realistically we want separation between Bitcoin and crypto we've now got in the UK coming in which again people the wink of us will be fully aware of but whether they know the detail of Bitcoin becoming or cryptocurrencies becoming a restricted mass-market investment which means all of a sudden that changes Financial promotions and what you can and can't do with everything there's a 24-hour cooldown I think we've spoken about this before on the Pod um someone signs up to the website we can't let them buy Bitcoin for 24 hours and then they've got to go away think about it and then 24 hours later then come back that will naturally push people to binance and not under these restrictions and these rules and they'll go and buy a chicken Casino like binance offshore jurisdiction whereas if so is it the detriment to UK I guess UK businesses and people that will fall under the UK side of things um and pushing it out pushing the business and the resale which actually then is detrimental to the retail so all of a sudden you've squeezed people out all of this is not senior and the wink of us coming over and saying look at how amazing it is the reg the FCA and The Regulators in the UK will think oh these guys are saying it's great and the public will think oh it must be good in the UK so there won't be any pushback in any drive to make changes in the UK but it's not the scope of the law itself because I agree with you in terms of that we'll push people to balance they're cool enough period but there's just one of many issues within this it's transparent in terms of what we need to do in terms of the cooling off period in America between the state and federal laws uh all the different states and all the different licenses that you need and they all have slightly different parameters like you see them fighting between themselves about how to get Bitcoin through and what you can do in bits and pieces that is not conducive to running not not to forget the UK is the size of like Texas yeah but economically it's economically it's almost the same size as it not and it's like I don't know what if you go State GDP of Texas versus UK I think that the interest population size and everything else think it's not not far off it's slowly land mass Texas is huge I don't know the population population is big as well it's maybe like it's not 70 million those no it's not no it's less than UK but it's you know it's you're starting to see some sort of comparable uh Texas to be a massive country if it was just the country itself I would have claimed that one independent or something in terms of Alaska be huge are you talking about no no population no population GDP I know but like you don't know the GDP yet this is uh July of last year ours was 1.3 times larger than Texas ours is 2.5 trillion dollars whereas Texas is 1.8 trillion it's not moral sizable there you go um so when they're at state level of Victory sniff well the UK the ukr you've only got that a victory snort that much the US that's 150 states that they're dealing with so you can understand why there's a separation why things are my point you you are right without the separation there's there is Clarity in the UK for what you can and can't do and things but what you can or what you can't do whether it's been so restrictive and the wink of us coming over and saying oh yeah this is amazing the public don't understand there's a separation between what he's what they're talking about there in terms of the clarity versus what actually that regulation entails yeah so from a public perception yeah they are screwing yeah okay customers they are screwing the UK public by coming over and doing that and they don't care because they're just trying to use that as ammunition to fire back at the U.S so it's not good for UK people for the Vancouver Washington and same with Brian Armstrong coming in the same well he pushed back a little bit he did a little bit yeah he had a little blog post on it yeah yeah that's what I was just gonna say he at least pushed back but yeah and he didn't come across and start saying well he did come across and say oh it was great yeah this sort of stuff I don't know if he actually said the regulations great because he did push back to be fair to but the Winkle was coming and doing that it's like the naivety of maybe themselves in some capacity but they're using the UK and the UK public at the detriment to the UK public to try and fire back at the U.S to try and get them to change it in their home territory because they want the US to be the winners I think you see similar things with a massive comment like Google and Amazon they're all lobbying against different countries and stuff I don't want the public to mop that up in the link of Us open in that sense you want them to understand a little bit and maybe we have to publicly push back on that and say why um which I guess is what we're doing here and all that as well and because for me they're using the UK and using the UK public to fight a battle across the sea in the US and they don't care about the UK public in that respect some okay yeah I mean never went about time aren't they they are they're against the ropes big time yeah Regulators are after him who's false that well it's not for the staking issues in terms of the products they offered and then what they went down for the first repayment apparently from they didn't get uh yeah that's fell through again this year this week is it I can't remember detail a lot but yeah um but it's wide the one they went down the buzzwords and mistaken on the urn products and all this sort of stuff and um trying to solve exactly exactly how do you make more money yes well they're doing well on that from well not anymore I think was it not sure a couple weeks ago no the problem I think they're on about the them putting the money in themselves to Bear the company out because they can afford it they couldn't they couldn't get funding they failed to raise funding for another round and they're putting the money in themselves I think was the last thing I'd heard oh well um okay they should just leave and do their Rock Band full time Mars Junction I agree clear off stop muddy in the waters I quite like them from The Social Network you know the fact I've never watched it sorry guys never watched the film there's the second one coming which follows on the story which is following the the book isn't it last week the guy kez was filmed in Doncaster like literally it was also that would have been negative in age like I'm just doing a segue to this Finland news into the Finland news there we go what we thought we don't completely understand yeah we have how it's How are they charging negative for electricity they're just not it's that's just a news headline it's like when oil price went negative for a viral no one was actually buying no one's actually getting paid to buy a barrel of oil so I can read the article well it's like something down a bit so uh clean energy was so abundant that it sent prices into the negative uh the Nordic country reported that it's spot edits so it's spot Energy prices they are what drop below zero right so this meant that the average Energy prices for the day was slightly below zero it says Yucca runs rusinen the CEO of finland's grid operator fingered nailed it so why does why is the loans of mine is not going to to Iceland I think they are that's why I saw it I saw Michael saying about turning it on there but they've obviously they've got physically getting there and stuff as well if you haven't got them there but I think there is already quite a chunk there uh yeah so that's because obviously in practice it doesn't appear any ordinary fins are being paid to consume electricity people pay a mark upon on the electricity and often pay agreed rates for power instead of raw market prices yeah okay so why is it was this the nuclear power plant one yeah so a new a lot they have a lot of hydroelectric power and also they just opened a new nuclear plant which was okay but how can the economically open a power State a nuclear power station if already the electricity price is so low they've got so much can they sell this onto all the countries is that what there is a lot of countries aren't they no Europe is turning off most of this I didn't know that which is mad we're not on UK though I don't know um still quite and it's hard to tell because like a lot of them like a Chinese um we're opening them and putting funding power stations and bits and pieces like that in the UK on the EDF and bits of pieces a lot of that funding fell through after brexit because it also takes so long to get approval and yeah as you can imagine actually it's probably not an easy thing to plan for no not not by building there incredibly safe though Bitcoin hotel in Dubai incredibly safe so Finland now have five nuclear reactors two power plants um that's sure more than they need is it sorry is it Finland or Iceland right yeah it was disrespectful sorry I also it's stupid to me I was reading headlines I'm sure I read headline about them the first one opened in Europe in 15 years okay teaches me for headline reading it says combine these power plants uh that cover more than 40 of the nation's electricity demand that's just the nuclear before the Hydro power as well so there's absolutely rolling in energy hearing well over there and energy so take your mind is over there no my miners are working from free electricity as well they will be my inverter arrived yeah yeah so the inverter's here waiting on some solar panels also ordered a chi a silent Miner that's been modified in S9 so it's supposed to be for you know like that who that company was bringing them out um yeah they do remember in one I forget what they were called but they were quite heaping but they're quite like 1200 weren't they for one yeah yeah but YouTube's terrible I think everyone said oh was it yeah oh it was not good feedback there's a YouTube video one guy took it apart and you'll be interested in that yeah yeah absolutely abused it didn't you abused it yeah did it just stop working or something well yeah it's not working after two weeks so you can buy modified ones now for like I think this was like nearly 400 euros it's just a silent fans on them they've run it a lower wattage so it's not as loud so obviously the hash rate's impeded they have different type of fans on yeah so it's again not as loud and you can do it apparently they made really quite slightly you can buy like for your PC you can buy like silent fans yeah so you get nearer the price of a storage heater but it's still it would generate a tiny amount of Bitcoin so I'm just gonna I've also so I've got two out of so I'll have two s9s and an S9 non-modified and a modified heating S9 and we can run sound comparisons wow and then live on the pocket live live I'd be interested in that would you not yeah get one of those little sound meters I don't know maybe no one else would be interested in that part of doing that and then the old um solar panel Sun harvesting will either run one of them which is nice people might be interested in this demand you're right I'm just trying to hopefully you should have it all set up just before winner yeah but then that is also a good thing like I want to measure that yeah like is it even probably is it viable it's yeah it's to power on I mean it's not profitable but might not be profitable [Laughter] how sunny it is look all that energy wasted all that service area that is true uh should we jump in quickly bottle pay um which last week we saw them shooting their doors um which is a shame again another UK um we hadn't seen him do anything for a long time they remember a couple of years ago they were like doing some we were in Manchester one day they were running some events it was with a couple of years yeah we met some of them there yeah and not heard much from him from since then do they turn off sign ups or three months ago yeah they turn up sign ups turn turned off sorry um yeah that was probably started this year wasn't it um and then eventually shut the service down um but we don't know I did obviously acquired him last year and then pulled them into the US and neidig's more focused on infrastructury pieces of learning and things so and have to assume uh that they are pretty much just getting their team in software attack stack is just pulled into naidig and they're going to use that for um us I I assume as well one of the big things if obviously if they're shutting down and they have FCA crypto register are they um giving out effective at that point uh which would kind of dictate an idig's Direction maybe and see where they're going which means probably focused on the US and some other pieces um maybe not in the UK which is a shame for the UK Market I think a little bit um Pete was was nice um it was a good guy when he and then he was the sort of CEO founder of it yeah um but I think he was also just swallowed up and mopped up within the naidig structure um but yeah another one gone um hopefully it's not it doesn't feel like it was a regulatory squeeze or anything or banking squeeze or anything like that I think it's more of a a roadmap plan for nadigm um I'm guessing educated guess no no no good little guys carrying on what have you doing Within nadigm um coin corn Corner news I've got another bit as well some questions do you want to touch on the clean corner news I don't know if it was endless people endless endless people and the stars I mean there's been a lot oh yeah new stuff three or four new stuff two start this week two start this week uh another probably about another six or seven and then yeah come on uh what else will be noon well it was the pouch video that what was flagged on this list oh yeah that's what I thought you were going to talk about I'll pass you on for that that was your that was your tweet I want to talk about your tweet that wasn't we I used the video from pouch pouch did a video um that allowed sent from coin corners app via sent globally to uh gcash fire pouch uh in the Philippines and it just showed a real-time side by side coin collar up on one side and gcash account open on the other side and you could see how quickly as soon as he sent it was in the gcash account it'll decide within milliseconds it was within a second yeah um which was pretty cool to see at a good rate as well uh I yeah it wasn't there was actually backlash about that it was it not a good way no why would you put a statement out so this is why I never stay away I assumed it was a good rate because it uses sand Global lingle sang lovely smashes spot rates yeah technically it would have been a good rate there was their uh pouch I think at a 50 Cent fee it's better minimum wow it is okay so we've got a minimum fee they only sent three pound so because we only said three pounds exactly yeah so because they send me filming a test video yeah yeah well come on the amount of three pounds I've sent is really true uh various people are but um yeah that was unfortunately just so it looked yeah but any other like everyone uses a fixed proposal yeah exchange you try and get it lower than that you need a comparable on there yeah well you do oh Western Union three pounds I'd be like no if it had to just say no yeah well they wouldn't let here if it was 100 quid then obviously that the rate would have been good so it would have been effectively the best rate available but yeah there was a few people replying to say no well it doesn't it does actually say within the the structure but you it looks like you're sending three pounds and then on the next page you're saying like three pound fifteen it's like where's that 50p come from yeah and it was because of the the other minimum fee no but then people are highlighting a ux thing and that should be displayed but I shouldn't I think it is displayed but it's on the video it's just quickly brushes by it um so there is a display say another fee but it's still instant cheaper than anything else so it could be out there yeah unless you said we like I suppose if you send three packs how else could I send three pounds to the Philippines but instantly yeah um for 50 people even if it was out of 50p cost as well how am I doing I couldn't do that anyways yeah and so let's get a grip so 700 quid yeah good video though we should do more product videos probably don't do enough of them Molly she's not even here but you can disclaimer and shower uh cool um question got today uh from somebody um I won't say names uh saying they haven't seen much on uh see lightning promoting Bolt 12. um there's a conversation I think in one of the telegram chats around Vault 12 and it's uses and I think there's been a bit more recently on the baltoire stuff lnd where um what's her name was it Carl who's it left uh I'll call a lightning lapse didn't they to oh she left to do it she left and then she started doing the lnd add-on that he was doing while she was working there I think she left okay she left and she's doing that at the add-on for lnd to allow for ball 12 um invoices effectively um so I think they were just basically query and there wasn't too much of a question it is live in Coal line and umbrella just brought it in yeah latest call lightning version so you can actively play around with it but they're not promoting much with it and doing it because not many people use call lighting I think is what these guys are saying yeah um so what's what's our opinion I guess on it I think is is a general question um you need to have a play around with it really I think still fairly inexperienced there's questions on how it scales properly but yeah so for people's understanding on that what does access touch on there the scale inside so for example from exchange point of view um we love Alan URL um and lightning addresses for example things like that because it allows us to take the logic away from the lightning node itself and the logic effects would be abstracted away and done at the um code level where we can we know that can scale and we know because it's a web API let's call it um and we know they can scale because you can put them on cloud-based platforms and so on so we know that's technology that we already know can scale and it's that easy so that for us um and just like that is so you'll probably get to this but that is perfect for us because we are inherently custodial so we don't really need ball 12 yeah so the that side of it we would rather stick with the L and URL piece which is why we pushed our URL in some capacity because it makes sense for us as a company um as an industry thing where bolt 12 comes in is it allows you to do so we've got like repeat we do repeat lightning payments so customers of ours can set up um a recurring payment to go out from like you know 100 SATs every day that was fired out so we we bug Dave every little just to annoy him for his accounts purposes uh it's only one sat every day um but doing that you can do that without URL you can do that with a service like ourselves to be able to Ping that off to somebody uh using what would be static invoices in in the respect to vanilla and URL pay um bolt 12 offers a similar thing where you can then do uh static invoices and such and then have a repeat payment within all the logic and all the code all the um the the infrastructure within that is within the node itself the lightning node itself which is great for a non-custodial perspective and that's the um sort of keeping the control within the customers the individual's hand um because then it is all done within there they don't need to run a web server alongside it to then do the interactivity of what Ellen URL is however how well that scales for us as a business we wouldn't necessarily want to do that because it would be more complexity on something that's pretty new and pretty untested and unknown in terms of scalability of that and also having you would then end up with um all of them say we had 10 000 customers want to do repeat payments all at once they would all be getting nailed on the logic of the bolt 12 node uh sorry Latin node itself using bolt 12 which would be constantly nailing that node rather than just running it on a oh database logic layer and then pinging off firearm API and to be able to then make the transactions via our lightning node um where the interaction of the lightning node itself then just actually makes the payment rather than running the logic alongside it as well so from a company perspective I think and you'll see a lot of custodial companies um it makes more sense for us to operate on that side we can also add the bolt 12 don't get me wrong we can have that as well and from an industry perspective and a global um Bitcoins long-term survival perspective then I like Bolton Baltimore's great because it brings in extra privacy and allowed you to do certain Logic on your own node infrastructure itself so it's required in my head and it's a good thing um but they can also they'll work side by side I think generally everything will all work side by side um my not reservations but some of my unanswered questions with some of it I don't know if it'll answer they're just I'm not sure where people's heads are at bolt 12 introduces certain things like we're saying about the repeat payments and some logic it also increases privacy for the receiver um receiver get another row around um that is via um blinded paths thank you um which blinded parts are not necessarily about 12 thing they're just all coming in with the bolt 12's new uh structure of an invoice but blinded Parts can actually be added to ball 11 invoices to what we see today as a lightning voice so you can already do that um you can bring those privacy improvements onto onto what's standard well 11. yeah so then actually all the improvements that are already in Bolt 12 the structure of the invoice I think obviously is an improvement because it's smaller and obviously it can be static and so there is small improvements on it but a lot of the improvements within bolt 12 can already be done where they are or done by other means um yeah I think everything is a preference to the the person about trade-offs at the time yeah and because we are a company like basically essentially one talks over the line in rails one talks over the internet to get the invoices we're a company that already talks over the Internet because we have a website we have web servers running so it makes sense for us to abstract it off the lightning Network and onto the internet essentially yeah because we're already doing that and we're not bloating the lightning gossip layer at that point it's a communication still on the internet not on there so what like why in terms of if if times are bottleneck why would we have bothered with the bolt 12 if we've already got well we want there we want to be able to interact with the network if adoption of bold 12 invoices takes off we want our users to be able to Center them at least okay and so that's probably where we start we bring in socially to be out centered so our trigger to add it in would be what adoption for elsewhere it needs to be so we so for example a lot of most of the lightning network is running from lnd so the implementation is r d which doesn't have Volkswagen no plans or they've got plans to bring it in I think last time spoke the end of this year would be like bits of Vault 12 coming in so realistically you're probably talking a year or two before l d is fully compatible with all 12 but so that that's what I'm talking about cut is it Carla yeah one again oh Carla she's left to focus on building an add-on for lnd which will enable functionality with bolt 12. right um so if that becomes a possibility then maybe we can use the add-on to have ball 12 compatibility with lenders which means that most of the industry can easily upgrade and do it without changing the whole their whole infrastructure away from l d to then call Lightning's implementation and so that might be a simpler way to bring quicker bolt 12 adoption um and we could do that so we can interact with other people if they display ball 12 invoice we need to be able to then pay it so of course we will bring in functionality to be able to do that um so it would be a thing at the minute from our perspective there's nothing bolt 12 can do that apart from the Blind and pass but you can actually do that anyway and what we I guess not care about but what we need to do from a business need at the minute um there's nothing really for us to put as a business we don't need receiver of privacy really because it just can't do our priorities for us at the moment to do we we just know well there's no point in us trying to push that where you've got to kind of sometimes as well like the industry kind of dictate saying what happened with Ellen URL lightning addresses we thought that was actually pretty lightning address is really useful actually very good um and we didn't have another alternative to that so it made sense for us to jump on that add it see what happens and the industry actually seems to have run without and seems to like lightning addresses or even adoption over that's taking time yeah so only recently we've seen strike do it Michael sailor launched products on the back of it exactly and there's still several other big light lightning companies that haven't done it you know he likes Kraken and stuff so still adoption yeah got lightning addresses no they've had lightning for a long time as well haven't added them but they take time and it eventually comes um but you have to kind of let the market dictate it's going to be useful and what's not and businesses will generally make use of what's useful to that business um so ball 12 doesn't from a functional perspective doesn't bring us anything new from a not like a functional like a feature perspective then what bolt 11 currently does and what our features already offer um so there's no real demand for us to jump on and do it because we've got something there like lightning addresses with something different at least um so it's we will include it and add it if the market dictates and says everyone goes that way what's this bloody question what was it it was just our thought process I think all right all right yeah I'm sure we'll answer that we're out here I look forward to playing around with the diamond I'd chance properly yet um yeah but yeah that's hard part of this industry as well you don't get time to do what's the top of your list to play around with because you always say oh we're going to play around with it does you prioritize that listen anyway no no prize most of yours we're gonna throw I'm gonna play I'm gonna play around with it and then I have big sentence what do you do over the weekend is like oh fix my bike yeah you can fix my motorbike place an engine yeah you play around with list just gets longer yeah touch line we'll get there but that's the part of the problem there's there's so much happening right now like look at an Australia well nostril and all them sort of things and zaps on there I'm getting questions about that all the time and Tarot we've got going on we can't jump and we can't do everything so we have to try and figure out what benefits and what we think is um from our understanding and thought process what's a good long term it was a play around listen external from the business isn't it what's the one thing where you're like but I'll do that that's the ones where I think I look at it and think it's got a long-term use case lnurl was so obvious that we had to jump on that straight away it opened up open up new functionality and features that you couldn't do elsewhere so that's what I'm saying we just see there's a lot of stuff we could look at we've just gotta be selective because what else right now opens up new functionality and flexibility and and features and things which at the minute is probably tarot starts to become that a little bit um because you can have stable coins that might mean off-grid so solar mining other people already doing that so yeah but not in the island man because it's not bloody Sunny doesn't bring anything for alcohol Steve's doesn't that's what you always have to think about solve a problem but no well if I've managed it so it's the sun yeah well probably and then isolation yeah it does solves a bit of a problem but it's not that it solves a problem anyway really has it of course not someone else has already sold yes it does the solar panel solved the problem yeah but you set in a solar panel doesn't solve a problem yep um but it's the level of understanding you get from like I'm taking deep dives into solar panel efficiencies like a person from my background doesn't normally step into that see you asking churches to try and get the right answer on something about the solar battery stores where's the best place to buy or something it was a prompt game wasn't it we were zeroing in our problems solar power calculations so we can work out it wasn't right it said we needed about 8 000 solar panels to run one mine the price would cover the whole island yeah um but that's also people's logic paths isn't it I think about solar differently from what other people think about solar because my background's different so we might get to different answers and I like that way when people explore things from a different background yeah so for ball 12 on our road map it's on the radar should we say it's not really penciled in for the roadmap in terms of when because I think we still need to know Clarity from lnd and how that's going to interact the demand as we know it's been on call lighting for a while but it's not really being widely used or being used I've not really seen any wallet at it I think there's one is there that's looking to add it yeah yeah is it blixt yeah yeah um so there are people slowly starting to add it but not at any scale like lightning addresses for example at the minute but as Zach says there that takes time and don't I guess it's impatient to everyone's always impatient we always want things now don't we it's just what we do but it will take probably another year or two traditional Bitcoin away isn't it we it's unusual that we hear about things like bolt 12 while they're being years while they've been developed for years essentially so you think why is it taking so long when actually it's only really just come out to be tested yeah it's like yeah it's a long journey yeah everything you've completely right because Segway look at Tap Room things like that segwit was years in the discussions in the making obviously that came in and still took what three or four years to get to are we at 90 plus now usage of of segwit um I'll say well Tap Root and you know it's took that time to get all the exchanges on board and doing that um and it just it does unfortunately it's new technologies and you're making upgrades to a Global Financial system at the end of the day each time this changes um I think it'll get that eventually bolts off right cool awesome that must be about an hour or 12. just for that long answer hour 19. well by the rest of the Pod surely done we're done done No One's Gonna Make it to the end of that yeah yeah let's just tell them to skip skip to the answer yeah cool all right Phil thank you guys thank you peace [Music] foreign