El Salvador Tourism Doubles Thanks To Bitcoin | Britcoiners by CoinCorner #79

Join Danny, Zakk, and Dave for this weeks ramblings. Topics this week include: Blackhawk and BitCard to offer Bitcoin gift cards, Visa & Mastercard pause launch of crypto products, Xapo Bank partners with Lightspark and integrates Lightning Network, HSBC and Nationwide to ban crypto purchases with credit cards, and Tourism increased by 95% in El Salvador due to Bitcoin. Our Merchant of the Month is Herts Hemp (https://www.hertshemp.com/) Subscribe to our new Britcoiners YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@CoinCornerLtd This episode is sponsored by CoinCorner (https://www.coincorner.com) - A global leader in Bitcoin and Lightning services.

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foreign this week price Merchant of the month or we got Blackhawk and bit card these are MasterCards uh saying they'll pausing their crypto movement uh Zappo integrating with a light spark UK Banks HSBC Nationwide Banning crypto purchases uh and making Bitcoin a legal tender increased tourism by 95 says the Kelly all right let's get cracky I'm amazed I got through that without you interrupting I know I was just leaving it this week I just thought I could change when it would make a change no Molly no Molly get up here spear strikes again she does yeah it's not great for our view viewership is it no it usually drops when Molly's not here the eye candy to me and I'll take on that man yeah I think I agree um [Laughter] we were on a call this weekend though someone literally just called me a [ __ ] hat and he had a coat on it I know I just looked like it I did look like a [ __ ] and it's not the first time yeah and they were they were cold in that office yeah I was like yeah so we don't put the heating up we do cook costs we do put the heating on the heat on every single day no not it's on every single day even in the summer sometimes it comes on back we have no control in this building yeah we were just taking a piss at me though aren't they yeah yeah but then I was talking about I'll save money on not having haircuts yeah and then the CFO was on he's like I'm doing the same thing and he did have a long hair CFOs yeah where else are you talking about this is what you need to do most people it can also fight that though running companies it is the granular stuff does count or in even dead people's day-to-day budgets it probably gets you in the mindset more as well see I'm still on paying 80P a week for lunches you're still doing that yeah oh dear 80P a week your route is the time when you got illa yeah I probably didn't probably nutrition and get home absolutely starving anyway the agenda or the price 22 382. uh it was really annoying because that like it was where was it probably about 23 and a half and I bought yeah when it's you know I could do every start of every month yeah and it's almost within a few hours oh well was it silvergate was it oh it was yes it came in with silvergate didn't it yeah maybe yeah I think you're right on that one um but to be honest the price where it is held up pretty well considering SEC and everything that's getting battered everywhere yeah um so yeah pretty good staying quite static I think last seven days yeah um apart from that little drop that was it yeah I wonder if it's still relating with the market do we still does Plan B still put out charts I've not seen a plan B chart for age remember when he was bang on for ages and I was like this galaxy you mean bang on with the world's widest rain it did have a big range on it but he was within his range I mean it's still within it if you oh it's because the range was so wide it does dip out of that range it has done historically once I think or twice and then obviously I've done this time as well but people obviously don't say that's broken because it's come out but he is I think more recently his problem is he's chilling random exchanges and yeah which is kind of killed in a little bit um obviously plus the stop to flow is kind of also people saying yeah it doesn't work it's just it's broken right um yeah it was the glory years of plan B's models are out the window I think he still puts them out when he's still trying to claim that yeah it's not broken it's still going to go I think because yeah it has come out of the bounds historically it will always at some points come in and out of them all right I'll have a little look at the guy in full period to use like saw his tweets all the time yeah I actually think I even followed him because that's because he was tweeting was it by bit and there was another one I think at some point it's like he was tweeted he was selling tweets basically oh okay um which was like ads which but they were just they looks like spammy it was bad it wasn't great okay so you unfollowed him yeah right I just I don't I cleaned my timeline up quite a lot these days with anything if I see someone tweeting like anything that's like just to unfollow any stuff [Laughter] a lot of people doing bad renders it's like a little Ghost Town Twitter at the moment for me I did a render right that render he just said was quite good yeah I put it out and bear in mind I just did it in the evening put it out at 11. two views within the first hour and a bit stifling [Laughter] [Laughter] a lot of people surely you either pay or you're just going to walk away at some points it becomes a point where they're like what's the point I can't tweet well no one could possibly see it but I think that depends on people a lot of people use Twitter just to follow the people don't know and to keep an eye on what's going on in the world more than trying to get attention themselves so I think like the influencers all pay and because that's what they're it's like they're trying to create a career of it most people onto a probably 99 that's what they're not just there for like just yeah yeah probably right or following things so I think they'll be all right they'll just need that one percent to pay someone if you are trying to create new content it's somewhat stifling that though isn't it yeah yeah just like centralizes this content creation into nothing that diverse that Free Speech becomes paid speech yeah it's just like oh anyway and let's not get onto it alone uh right black first one up Blackhawk um team up with bit card to offer Bitcoin gift cards or us retailers I found this one quite random have you guys read this no I saw a bit of it yeah Mikey did you read it sorry uh I only pulled it because I know Blackhawk was one of the ones that strike announced with last year wasn't it the conference in Miami why do you think it's a bit weird though because I thought oh that's quite cool because more Bitcoin availability in shops oh no yeah that's if it's like your Amazon cards you can get here and stuff if it's valid yeah it's and it is Bitcoin right it's Bitcoin yep everything's fine I've never heard a bit card it was one one I say red flag but you know I've probably not heard of all the Bitcoin company yeah yeah exactly there's thousands right yeah but been around since 2018 and you thought they've never heard of them being your reader somewhere it's considering that's quite a big deal they must have quite a big celebrative yeah um the blog post adequately knows the over the site again trying to understand what it is there is no renewal explanation of what it is when you look at sites are you looking quite critically into the performance of the site or the layout of because I just look at the information on the site the look and feel I don't really care about no that goes with some professionality I guess but it's more about yeah all sorts of background stuff there's devs and stuff whether you look at like load speeds or where the gifts are loading properly or they'll I don't know instantly go right click inspect and start looking at how they've no no not that okay yeah um you can kind of sometimes tell if it's like yeah it's a half-hearted effort of a website in some ways um but yeah even just simple things look at their blog is a good example one for them they've did a PO I think did two blog posts last year and before that they were like 2008 a couple in 2018 or something so it's kind of stuff you can't cheat on isn't it like you can't just throw up a site and then have history yeah like like Twitter followers or followers on any socials yeah a harder to fake it although you can get Bots and fake like blog posts is right isn't it you you can't just throw up loads of historic blog posts you could back date yeah you could yeah so I can throw it now you could throw a new website today okay 10 years old of blog posts but you could check the domain when the domain yeah it's very easy right yeah well if you know what you do and what you're looking for yeah right I think this is what I mean check the traffic going to that site and where's the traffic coming from is it fake is it actually real is it like you know yeah that's what I dig into that's my biggest I mean 99 of people wouldn't do that right no let's see your blog post data didn't go all right that's cool I suppose if they would even look at it that far you'd probably a lot of people most majority will just look at the website and take a face value nice little template um it wasn't a very nice website not offensive neither though I'm not here to abuse at people I'm trying to do yeah we're doing this you're down that street again let's go let's go who are they what are they called I'm trying to be critical of um what's coming into the industry I guess in some ways yeah we hate you all and making sure making sure it's legit but yeah it was just odd because obviously never heard of him they're four or five years old apparently um you don't see anything other than socials and things like that obviously um they've teamed up with Blackhawk which I didn't see this last week and I don't know where you pulled this from Mikey that because it was just a it was actual um press release wasn't it it was press release copy that had just been pushed to a news site so none of the news sites have actually picked it up so that then makes it look like you know yeah it's just they've pushed it through some sort of aggregator that's pulled the press release in um which then he's like okay is this really what it sounds what it seems of black hole given that the go ahead if they just like well yeah we've seen that in the past with other companies where they'll announce Partnerships and the partner doesn't know yeah and then the partner pulls out yeah and then you know we've literally had that we've lost relationships due to other people doing that is that thing with boots decided to start shouting about it and telling the world that they're partnering with boots and boots all academically talking about and then boots pulled their hole and really it was just campaign basically accessibility wasn't it yeah yeah and Boots pulled their whole cash back campaign for anything cryptocraid which means we lost that relationship then with boots which we'd had for 18 months and why do our boots today for ESG purpose they didn't know they were like it's the environmental impact because it wasn't um probably was at the time because it was a similar time when Tesla stopped accepting it like 12 months ago yeah so long ago yeah um so yeah all that was just like you I don't know I don't trust some of these things yeah so we've been in the narrative to make it look like you've partnered with a company when you're just using their cashback scheme it's like all them ones at the minute with the VISA uh visas launched a card in Brazil no it's not buy an answer but that one's incredibly technical it's gonna be in stalls if it isn't installed then it hasn't happened yeah I don't know this one yeah let's wait and see and see what happens that's that's the point I don't know how Blackhawk Works to be honest in terms of the actual physical cards and getting them into but if it is true and the Bitcoin card like well what kind of what are they though I don't even know but this is the thing this is why I look into the website doesn't explain it at all because we could do it with a bulk card gift card right essentially yeah you can put them in stores and then it'll just prompt people to I don't know load them up in various xyzes the bulk card is easier yeah it's ten times easier if you've already you get 100 times again yeah you want to gift Bitcoin to thousand times yeah but how do you know you don't know what method they're using they might trying to figure it out so it was like you go in you buy the card for dollars in the shop but then you've got a you give that to somebody they would then redeem that for Bitcoin in theory but then you've got to sign up at bitcard and put your kyc information identity and all that sort of stuff so the new person has to go and do that um obviously with the bulk card you can just and you can top it up dead easy and just give it to someone and it doesn't have to be a bulk card it can be any NFC compatible uh tag device whatever yeah um so yeah and that's easier to give out than that so yeah it was just a bit it's about there is already gift card Solutions out there and doing it again so yeah I just felt I mean yeah I think you can buy some in Walmart can't you some I don't know what the company is doing it but okay I was hesitant I think just with all the other stuff these days it's just I don't believe anything that comes out just don't trust anything don't trust verify I know people are saying that but you still need some trust somewhere I'll not yeah it depends on which one anyway okay let's watch this yeah but we'll never pick that up again in terms of we'll never see it it's like it won't it won't pop up in the news now no you have to wait until you see if anyone we see on normally if it's something decent and big you'll see someone on social is going to buy money oh yeah yeah that's where I'd expect to see it right yeah but at the moment it's just that right someone's selling a product somewhere yeah great it feels like because I don't know if it's live there's again no no explanation if he's alive yet is it in the stores is it like which I don't think it is but it sounds a bit it's kind of like an announcement about an announcement about an announcement thing which I'm just that's why I'm being so critical of these things because it's just like come on do something real challenge our list and see if you can find one yeah give us something really find one find one and video it yeah yeah yeah although the sport car videos going around this this weekend people using poses yeah there was yeah there's quite a few it just randomly pop up they were still Gibraltar ones there were new ones I think new videos I've not seen them before but yeah Gibraltar yeah so yeah it's quite good no although we do like and retweet it yeah but we're not asking people or like Anyway creating that content you got better Twitter it's not the real world though as well the real world I'm getting millions millions of what millions of views how does that work a small compassion in the streets down yeah um yeah but I guess it's our world and it's the the Bitcoin world at the minute is yeah yeah yeah yeah and then you would if something's happening in the real world people want to film it want to get it on Twitter I want to share it so um you do expect to see it so critical thinking hesitant to jump in and support any of that every minute until I get more clarification of what it is that's with everything that goes for everything not just that you're not supporting anything until until you're ready look what happens with Celsius and Voyager and FTX for anything no I didn't but that's the point other people did block five other people did support them and push them without really knowing what was behind the scenes of them so you like to sit wait I like to create have a look criticizing thoroughly and when I can't criticize them anymore when I can't criticize them anymore then they're good oh Danny what are you doing I'm busy criticizing that's what we did like me and Zach in the mornings sat there criticizing the concepts not companies yeah individuals yeah products and that's how we like the bulk card and stuff you know that took us a lot to go through and like pick its pieces and make sure and there's still flaws and still things in it that you can put picked pieces but it's good enough to be 90 good enough to be out there and being used I think um you've always been like that have you decided to change your ways of thinking is it stuff you've read and you just slowly or is it like five-year-old dummy criticizing parents bringing some food that's a diva [Laughter] I think I've always been critical that's the mindset it's like a lot like the way my brain works logically it's like yeah if I can't criticize anything then it must be good what was it like ratify it make it clear in your mind almost like yeah say like you analyze the problems first if it ticks all the boxes yeah I can't find any other flaws with it then okay it makes sense let's do it that's the way I guess I work yeah it's quite good for our Partnerships because we do get approached by an awful lot of people and like they a lot of people do fail sniff tests don't they that's what a summary of what you're doing really yeah just to get right there it doesn't make sense yep and that's how we've probably probably why we've lasted so long in this industry because we just we've been approached by people and and they have become stumbling blocks for other people yeah in quite major ways and we've always just gone yeah does it sounds if it sounds too good to be true often is it does carry yeah yeah there's a lot there's like exactly what you say there's a lot of examples of that and that's what other people need to be more critical of these things like block five we've had we've spoke about that before and here aren't we I think having the conversation with you but I wonder if people look at us on similar calls and me looking like a chick we're not great together they look at us and go oh I'm not sure about those yeah yeah she's on the other foot yeah the Isle of Man have you ever heard of that man and they're just confuse it with the other one that's the thing don't judge a book by its cover yeah and that we don't do that because we dig into the detail of what's in the book whereas if other people are judging the book by his cover of you sat there with your hat on yeah looking like a miserable face yeah it's trying to argue with everyone on the call then that's their problem that's their fault true so yeah I think definitely over the years yeah it has helped doesn't it helped us out yeah there's more of that to see play out it's annoying because you can't really as a southern past it's hard to talk about a lot of these things because they are things that happen in the background and they're not um there's two that I can think about you should write a business book Danny's 101 of the business but then you get yeah but that's like yeah you know that like books there's like they put headings on books yeah like there's um what's that book about has F the f word in it then it sold loads how not to give it f no it sold loads because it's like on the cover it says that yeah when really Danny Scott sniff test could be the same I like it yeah there's two different parts in my head it's like nothing nothing is the same in business think a lot of times the best way to yeah but there's like there's I suppose there's lessons that are passed on right yeah because I read the startup zendesk book and I thought that was quite interesting like is it yeah no it's called startup land Mikey might have found me out on this one startup land about the story of zendes I don't think I've read that yeah I've got it I'll lend you it and that was quite interesting even though you know fairly successful company and I was like oh no that's interesting that they've choked at such an early stage because the book's probably three or four years old and um just fairly interesting that a business would I can't find it is it a startup planned yeah yeah the book about three guys who risked everything to turn an idea into a global business but it and it but they chose to write that book as a little this is why and what we were doing and it was very much like the problems they had but there's hundreds of millions of books like that but they are each one I read yeah they're as humans everyone's different scenarios yeah there's interesting takeaways from all of them doesn't really matter what type of business it is maybe we should yours would be more like a pamphlet they were a leaflet yeah just that yeah one page criticize Yeah Yeah by Danny Scott criticize criticized when you can't criticize any longer yeah it's good to go it'll be your your people management skills makes everything as easy as possible for everyone yeah it's how innovation's driven it's how products in this world are used uh without people being lazy half the stuff it's only sometimes when you say it I just I'll just do anything to disagree with it no the people aren't lazy it's just that ux or the oils down to Danny being right you're gonna admit it you're copying my thought process without realizing that I'm not criticizing me it's just a thought personally things yeah exactly yeah great idea yeah and when you said that word criticize I've never heard it what's he talking about right let's move on to the next one Visa Visa Mastercard right Visa Mastercard apparently brought out um news together that they're both slow putting the brakes on crypto bloody bloody right they didn't bring that news together that's what it's been published yeah one it was one undisclosed Insider said that was the case yeah inside out well this is this was the confusion part yeah it's a very loose news story anyway I don't know where we've picked it up from but it has been all over the news yeah yeah but I thought it I thought one it would be very suspicious if two massive organizations in the same field at least news at the same time especially the same direction like it just screams monopolies duopolies for two companies right but Visa did come out the day after saying that's not true okay but of course they have to because if you are in a duopoly or a monopoly so monopoly's on duopolies too did we just call it Monopoly you have to I might be lovely no Duo police had it say the Monopoly yeah and everyone knows Monopoly yeah yeah exactly but right so a monopoly you where you dominate basically a certain sector and you're in as a one company you operate two companies dominate a certain sector and you would also think because these are two of the most profitable businesses in the world with 50 plus percent net profit margins so they're making a lot of money against Merchants who are you having to pay hundreds of billions of pounds every year especially in America whether in a charge fee is huge whether to accept their money they're having a pay Visa must have gone a lot then they'd almost want to protect that and of course say they're not a monopoly yeah if you're in a monopoly the number one rule is make it make you sure every other way that you're not in one it's like Google always say they're not even don't monopolize search engines because they're in the advertising space yeah right where they can at that point bring in magazines every type of advertising so they're not a monopoly and I just think Visa Mastercard of course will have to push against specifically Bitcoin because the capability of Bitcoin to undermine their net payment networks and payment rails would be significant so I think whenever Visa Mastercard come on to the Limelight and say we're pushing against this or or against it they kind of have to be because they're protecting their revenue streams yeah and I was wondering how else how everyone else views that because that's how I view it every time I come home I've even got like there's a national retail Federation in America saying that Merchant's second biggest cost after wages is intercharge fees and but into charge fees are basically three quarters controlled by um visa and MasterCard Network so that's huge they're hugely significant so if you're I've and I personally think that's there should be competition in there yeah yeah because those two dominate so let's how long have they been working as this duopoly then I don't really well there's a lot of essentially they're not a Yorkie are they yeah but I think yeah but they can't go here's our terms of agreement for entering the duopoly No No like but they have the history of the two companies really I don't know well strike did it once in terms of the timeline because like they said yeah remember Jack miles came on the lights of union pay in China coming through now taking a chunk out of it um you've got Amex as well but these two are suits especially in America is huge oh yeah yeah but long term is it is it going to be this way I think union pay is the wide one in Asia more Asia isn't it yeah so there's like three I guess three cool ones in terms of volume size but you also think how closely do they communicate or you know do they protect each other and are they protecting that Revenue and would they then possibly push back push back on bitcoin yeah I think one of the interesting like I read a lot of um books on Old businesses that were like the shoe dog one with Nike and where uh one just read actually you'll enjoy Dave uh I think that's the side of the it's probably a book I recommended to you no I don't think it was the Vans book by the Vans founder um but like when you read back a lot of these different ones and you do realize yeah there's always communication the Apple one's an interesting one as well with Steve Jobs on uh it's a long book but it's yeah the crossover with all different companies and the communication between them and the there's a guy I've said before forgot his name now he becomes like he's a an advisor for a lot of Silicon Valley people um Within uh the tech industry and he was an old football coach um and he's an apparently like a big big muscly guy a big sort of uh cuddly guy is the best way yeah he hugs people a lot well I used to I think he's passed away now but all right um he used to go into yeah the board meeting and he'd hug people all right but he ended up being like this um go-to person for loads of board members of companies like a Ned Google uh more like a um a mentor for like the board of directors so for some of them so I think he was it was for Steve Jobs I think he was for all sorts of people for Eric Schmidt I think was it from Google there's a couple of others but basically he ended up it gives you on Microsoft as well he ended up in this what you're talking about there of these two companies communicating there was then Trump when the struggles between the two companies in certain ways he would like be this man in the middle who would just sit him down and say like come on guys let's work this out and talk and talk to each other and um we'll sort out and he was like almost the uh Peacemaker in some things in the negotiation piece between them and some of these books do highlight that he is there's a book on just him I think do you think they are pretty so it's almost protecting profit so like you don't want to compete yeah because you've got this margin essentially and you don't want to be yeah you're just gonna keep impeaching on it aren't you yeah so you think Visa Mastercard have gone actually let's just stick here yeah you're profitable enough we're all we're both making billions well there'll be crossovers all over the place in the top end and they will communicate without a doubt yeah and yeah they're in our opinion I'm not sure how liable any of this kind of like saying we think there might be a duopoly but we should probably be careful I think everybody out there would would kind of agree are you saying it Dave no I'm not saying not me but it's all my opinion yeah um let me just find that um but you'll see like um you'll see retail Banks occasionally they'll switch from visa to MasterCard and then back from MasterCard to Visa so they're playing the game of fees I assume yeah haven't we actually yeah we know that from people yeah um so they are so in order for Bitcoin to compete with these two or any other ones it's not really fees is it's more coverage yeah coverage is where it's at and then fees I I assume like a standard Retail Bank are not going to take on the bolt card now because there's no coverage compared to visa and MasterCard so it's all about coverage really isn't it yeah but how do you gain coverage how do you gain coverage yeah like are we talking Merchant adoption that's coverage integration to more people actively using lightning is there a Tipping Point at some point no you don't even need active users do you just need coverage so integration to POS systems right if you could spend the bulk card everywhere you could spend your Visa or Mastercard and we could offer the ball card cheaper yeah then the banks would just do it yeah because the coverage does that same yeah because the banks are also getting hit by fees from Visa mascot right and the banks could theoretically do the bulk card themselves without needing yeah a third party so so it's all about coverage once the coverage is there yeah they can remove it and that's slow but it's a little like lightning liquidity thing is a network thing for lightning well I'm talking about coverage is like five ten years away isn't it really it's 10 years time slow build you've got 90 of the UK Merchants except in Bitcoin and Via bulk card over sea piece as well then the banks at that point would be able to liquidity and lightning would be available and there'll be Services out there to provide Mass liquidity to Banks if you think I'd be there in five years ten years maybe 10 years plus yeah absolutely but it's just this slow grind now but yeah it's like one one extra for the coverage yeah and I think Visa Massacre had been going since I don't know the 40s 50s and like they've only received like got Mega coverage over the last 20 years I'd say that's with the digital transformation over the last 20 30 years digital has changed drastically so as well you might be waiting for the lightning Network to grow and well we already have that digital coverage now don't we so with smartphones and everything else so you've kind of got it but we are waiting for a network on top of that right yeah to get yeah but that's already had 10 years 12 years 13 years well yeah but lightning networks like two three five is it yeah two thousand it was 2018 January 2018 was the first two yeah 18 yeah we were all set here we were looking at the lightning Network back there bought a sticker on block streaming where you'd be so early one of the few first transactions right yeah February 2018 was that one didn't have a clue what we're doing well but we knew we knew Danny's I've been criticized [Laughter] we're ready we're getting there yeah eventually the coverage will be there I assume by then the world might have migrated away from physical cards maybe or even migrated away from old POS systems obviously Apple bringing out their things so you can be a POS just on your iPhone now as a merchant right so is it all moving which is what we've already got you can already be a merchant with your smartphone for Bitcoin so like breeze wallet and everything else can turn into non-custodial ones um so maybe as we see the death of these traditional POS systems yeah it becomes more modern and then coverage is easier yeah deals I I'd like because there is the concept sorry I've got the book there as well um the concept as well which you've seen in certain other countries maybe not so much in the UK but with the QR code so um the QR code can be like if you use null and URL style it's a static QR code and some respects but you could almost have the till as they're typing into the till it updates system in the background and updates that Allen URL QR code basically so it's just one you could print off a piece of paper another QR code and then when someone comes to pay they scan it and it's a different amount every time and it's the amount that is to updated on the till so you could end up where you don't even need a device you just have a QR code printed and there's PLS system's already Linked In to what it's doing behind the scenes which somewhere in like Asia where they use QR codes for everything you go to a shop there's like seven QR codes you can start to pay in all the different methods yeah they're used for that kind of thing as opposed to Oz where we used to tap him you'll get it down to one Dynamic QR code one static that you could just scan there is some places already doing something similar earlier but yeah you can end up where you don't just need a piece of paper with a QR code on um in the background you've got your PR system and everything yeah there's Stepping Stones all the way through this of all sorts of Concepts and ideas and that's the one thing there's no one Silver Bullet everything there needs to be different like solutions for different scenarios in different parts of the world yeah um the book was called trillion dollar coach the guy's name is Bill Campbell is it on Audible it is how many hours five hours 40. oh sure brief yeah quite sure hang that on 2x have it done yeah yeah he was the end of the day he was for he did like basically was the the coach and called him for Google um Apple into it so it's like Steve Jobs Larry Page Eric Schmidt there was loads of him and he just used to be he was the right guy on the right right time he was he's apparently such a a sort of well-loved and liked guy in that sort did he have his own successful businesses he was just like American football coach and then I can't remember that the book explains how he ended up getting into the world of business and ended up being just someone to talk to someone to ring when they used to and some of these like I've read some VC books in terms of like it's all about the people that come up with the idea and start the company aren't necessarily the people that go on to run it but in many cases they can be now and the trend is like Steve Jobs you know started in the garage and then ended up running there's no like training manual is there in terms of like you can do an MBA but you might as well just read a lot of books an MBL teacher nothing about a startup an NBA I'll teach you about yeah but they teach you about some business business big business is already put in place for you when you're in a startup and you're starting the company yourself you don't have them yeah exactly the procedures in place you've got to figure it out along the way yeah one of the things I was back in my books that I'm talking about that earlier on I would always everything is always different no business is the same even businesses that are in the same sector and offer them maybe the same end product to the user doesn't mean internally the business is the same it can be it can operate completely differently I wonder if we stepped into some of the other exchanges that are supposedly you know their exchanges are the same company whether we'd just be like what what's going on foreign actual office we see each other every day our staff are very accessible yeah true like you say there's more ways several ways to skin a cat yeah that's like 16 when our commitment that's a Danny recommendation yeah oh yeah we always know when you're reading a book because he's just not mentioning your suggestions will just be straight from the book I think we should do this we've all read the book as well yeah but that's just that's just knowledge yeah sometimes it's just director direct quote from the book If you if Jay Bezos finds a good way of doing something then oh yeah no no no no no no no well I've already got desks man that's completely true actually that is completely true I'll take that from Jeff like you sort of weird office expansion bloody bloody like we if we need some new office furniture I would rather than we not spend money on nice desks and repurpose some doors because it sets out the mentality to the rest of the staff so we got so here's a better idea no because let's repurpose some desks it's more expensive to go and buy the desk absolutely yeah I wasn't being cute at the weekend doors were like no but more expensive than death the whole point was that they had spare doors because we just need a piece they're ripping out the office so they add spare doors the point is we like you just because they have you just repurpose you repurpose there's people having their mentality no you know we're not here to throw money at remember because I interned here before I got the job yeah I turned up with my own desk oh he did yeah yeah of course yeah oh dude in the middle of making no no this was the old one we didn't have desks for interns so turn up you did it I did yeah all right they're the ones that we had when they were downstairs we really like you we think you've interviewed well can you bring some desks here first is that how do they approach that one now Liam worked for us didn't he uh he was he went to college with Zach um another guy and they all three of them were kind of coming into intern basically but Liam had already worked for us before so we said to him yeah well we can take the interns and we'll be out 90 desks at the minute so he was like I've got three days job done let's not determined you where to get the job there we go they were coming up with excuse me if you want is you know who's not here now the other guy and he didn't bring anything if you're willing to bring your own dad I really want this job and then at the end of The Internship I was like you know what guys keep the desks yeah we did we kept them yeah we've still got them they were downstairs yeah why are we chopping away desks we had no space yeah but enough space for the purpose now but yeah they went recently there's somewhere but anyway if we if I do get an opportunity to make it a desk out of a door I'm gonna I'm gonna do it I think do it yeah I'm gonna do it and people go yeah I just think if you do it wrong then door knobs right where you use your mouth stupid Jeff so yeah Bill Campbell redoubled it'll be interesting he pops up in I think he pops up in the another no not the Jeff Baza Swan and I might do briefly I think you're not Jeff one he's mentioned in it um he's mentioned on the Steve Jobs one and a couple of the ones I've read as well he gets bro I will read it um Zappo Bank integrates Bitcoin lightning Network partners with light spark do we know much about zapo bank I don't know anything about the zap program and it's been quietly Lots around because they're not called they're not as Apple Bank so that's what I'm going to talk about what they are they are now oh rebranded to zappel bank they're exactly crap PR if you've you've done all this hard work down this is my criticized criticizing so let's backtrack what all that is light spark is the company they partnered with to do the lightning infrastructure Light spark is headed up by uh for his name uh Marcus someone David David Marcus um who was the head of Facebook's Libra so two first names oh was he the Libra dude he's a Libra dude do you know the first hire for light spark um but yeah yeah that's cool so he was so basically he pivoted from so he went into Libra headed up Libra realized yeah this doesn't work did he actually come out and said this is just a centralized he's going to focus on he left it stepped down and said he's going to focus on bitcoin because that's where it's at oh how and then he then said announced Light spark and he's concentrating on lightning however it might have just been because it just didn't work and he just that was his nice exit out which yeah being critical could be that let's not trust but he has gone on to now work in lightning right yeah which is good um and they raised they raised a lot of money did they raise like 20 million or something I think to do this um I don't know where from can't remember now is this light Sparkles yeah light spot right no it's Apple massive right so Zappo are so this has been pivoted as or pushed from a PR perspective of uh the first bank to integrate lightning and use lightning um I think it's lightning sends only I don't think you can receive at the minute from what I could tell um but Zappo are an old Bitcoin exchange they're an old crypto exchange so they've been around before us they were like 2012 or something right um so they've been around a long time uh they are they were massive they would have been big for a long time um once is is the founder of it um he's an old Bitcoin OG um they how many customers have we got about six million customers I think already something like that and then I think they pivoted and went for or not pivoted but they went through license but I think they got it in Switzerland fact check me Maggie I'm gonna get in this room uh I think it was a Switzerland Bank license because I recently got it they've been because I mean probably about a year ago I think or something like that um from what I remember I didn't actually know that rebranded says apple bank until this came out and I was a bit confused like so the workloads Apple exchange they were just Zappos Zappos another zapo bank yeah the Gibraltar Financial Services Gibraltar banking license right okay um but they're they're known well known for holding the most cold store they're the ones that hold the Cold Stone in the caves with armed guards and all that sort of stuff our military base that's my I know you've got the Swiss that was the Swiss one yeah there we go thanks Mikey saving me there like it I remember reading that part yeah okay um so they've been around for a long time so it's one of them where and not discrediting what they've done there which is it's really good what they've done um I just always questioned you're saying the First Bank they're a Bitcoin exchange that's become a bank lightning still got the banking license right yeah but it's not a Traditional Bank ad in lightning oh it's not that's what's Bank no it's not salvation but yeah it's not legacy people right it's it's the new people becoming the Legacy becoming the banks which are right it's very much been spawned as the First Bank yeah indicating like Traditional Bank yeah which is just not true yeah okay yeah do you like people read so people think all banks are up in line but it's that's not the case maybe this is the way banks are going to outline it will be yeah become the bank yeah that's what it is become a bank yeah all those dinosaurs moving too slowly and Zappos just right we'll get a banking license and we'll add line which is amazing that's good that's I am packed it to them right not discrediting Zappos and Light spark at all it's more the news around it and what that perception gives out to people they charge for the sounds fees and stuff I don't know anything tell um um but yeah it's good a good step in the right direction I think obviously yeah it will persuade more Banks to pay attention um other Banks where you know it could work in the opposite of what I'm saying there and I can be just being too critical and other Banks could read that and think oh Banks they won't realize Apple who's Apple are in the history they'll just think about Banks added lightning we need to go and add line it so it could work some of the traditional Banks probably just think oh look at these upstarts for these Challenger Banks and we'll see them off because yeah longer than you've been alive yeah yeah the Challenger banks are struggling um yeah well The Challenger Banks realize they need to become actual banks in order to make money really muscle Revolution the only way revolut has survived has been crypto and then now they're going for the banking licenses yeah so without crypto revelry wouldn't be here had a good look at the revolute accounts this week actually or last week it's Monday um yes interesting really but they did make a report some profit for the first time so that I thought it'd be enough during 2021 yeah which was bull market true and it all came from crypto hidden or not disclosed yeah but you know they did pivot into crypto probably to make a bit more money and they've got the private in script I was elastic effort to save the company read it as they've Diversified the revenue streams go back and go back and read the articles they they were they did not say we've done this for a last-ditch effort I come on someone might have thought maybe they didn't use it but they may as well have said that back in 2017 they so towards the end of 2016 go back and fact check it make sure I'm not making it uh let's see if my memory serves me this was like seven years ago now um to end of 2016 they'd raised so much like 20 million or whatever they'd raise other times with this Challenger bank they were basically um they were struggling and they were potentially about to shut down and they then added crypto and that was at the perfect time during the 2017 ballroom and that kind of saved him and allowed him to go on to make some Revenue to start with and then go on to raise money there was plenty of Articles around that time that's kind of cover that piece of things because but I think people that don't realize like because initially right revolute you could just open a free account and that just everything was pretty much free and it like exchange foreign X exchanges was just free but these aren't free services to revolute like they've had a huge cash burn because they were just absorbing the cost he's like yeah and revolutely like don't have their own network of any sort so they were just paying for it yeah whilst people just got a free account and whenever you see a business model like that you've got there's always got to be a time when they switch the switch so they are right okay fees start coming in for every account and then you see like a claw back on some of the months they were they were making money on obviously your paid accounts which started off was it like three or four card and then yeah it went up in the different criteria yeah and then the business accounts and the introducing all the paid options yeah um which is natural and that's what they'll do but yeah they initially do that land grab to get as many customers as they can for free spending VC money to do that to create an unsustainable business model which they have to then pivot to a sustainable business and they can be under Mica in terms of because I saw an advert from them on YouTube and it was like sign up for a revolute with a chance of winning a thousand pounds and um if you sign up now get like 20 pounds free in your account I was like apparently do how are they doing that the it's not coming yet that's only UK as well they're making steps to do it all right they're literally you're just gonna do it until they can and then solve right because that's what it looks like yeah everyone surprised me yeah um but yeah they've got banking license in Europe um and trying to get one in the UK uh which will then kind of Trump the crypto register side and Mecca and Europe um so they won't need to I don't know if they'll need to register for that I don't think they do but yeah we much prefer a Zappo style approach in terms of lightning and I presume Zappo like can you get bike Bitcoin on there in terms of yeah yeah I've always just been a Bitcoin more of a broken exchange no no it goes originally I think it was just Bitcoin and they added crypto and everything over the years um but they were more of a brokerage style than an exchange side historically um but they've been yeah Bitcoins running through wences who's the funnies yeah as far as my understanding quite Bitcoin heavy um interestingly chose that they Outsource their lightning into Light spark rather than build it in-house yeah it's a strange one isn't it zapov always been a quiet company sat in the background to gain loads of customers early on um and then yeah they've not really pushed much and then they've just been quietly doing things in the background which is yeah maybe that's why they've outsourced it because they didn't want to build out and create overhead to the massive team to build yeah maybe I don't know yeah but of all hire a private Army to guard a cave or lenses is an investor in light spark oh yeah I would guess that might be the case as well actually I'll have to Google that and clarify that that would make that one Mikey fact check my Mikey the investors to light spark I think how many fact checks are you getting to do right now is in the list of fact checks could you just some serious producing to do but in fact checking away do you think that um Bitcoins are actually in a cave I don't know with armed guards around it it's the old military I claim it was in there and I'd set all that up and then I put it absolutely it's on the other side of the world yeah yeah he he write that I'm very dubious about it yeah that is a good show actually yeah can you go visit especially if the highlighting now there's a guy can you go visit no but I have seen someone visit a cave to view cold some documentary literally touring someone an underground cave and like it was oh no that was that little thing you know it was full of something it was on the Bitcoin ducks that does it I mean but you could do that if you give them tours out it's definitely not there then but there was armed guards in a cave yeah no they might be paying for all that you think I was just sharing but something and then they were opening doors saying like they were just going there it was and there were some racks in there but it was just like that could be anything yeah I don't remember seeing the racks no there was some it was not something I remember seeing that someone going down into like the cave style thing I think it was Zappo and it's on a Bitcoin documentary yeah yeah definitely seen I'm just saying if you're highlighting all this is you wouldn't yeah it's not the best security approach is it to say this is where we keep it but it is an armed guard there right I suppose according to crunchbase they have nine investors uh coach U nfx ziv Ventures Thrive Capital a16z crypto Paradigm Matrix Partners Felix capital and Ribbit Capital yeah so yeah but your problem is that he'll just have a ownership in one of those VCS yeah yeah because I think once it's quite an active investor in a lot of things um it says a16 Zed crypto and Paradigm were the lead investors that's an interesting one now they've gone into Bitcoin lightning it's just because of David Marcus and I think has been why they've pulled into that um yeah maybe there's the interest of yeah it makes sense for if Wednesdays did invest into capacity in that that would have made sense a lot to use them as an infrastructure rather than bringing greater team which is kind of sensible uh next you've got Jack going into infrastructure as well we've got he's he not putting some of some of them on here I didn't actually flag them to talk about because I didn't know enough about it all right yeah just putting Capital into the lightning infrastructure isn't he Jack [Laughter] ET with the Jack yeah we use people's Twitter names um but they're putting capital in in what like an infrastructure I presume oh they're launching a CSP called C equals yeah which said you're using blocks Bitcoin to sell the Cody yeah everyone's doing that aren't they selling lightning liquidity um but at the minute I think that's one of the things we've been around in circles with selling lightning liquidity to who I don't see the Demand right now right now there's no demand long term I think or mid to long term they'll start to become if you're a company and you raise a million pounds for whatever lightning events you're going to go into but you need Network and channels it'd be better to loan that liquidity and use your capital for the business than rather than just putting yeah no no hypothetically yes but but many of those companies exist right now I think that's part of the problem there's not enough companies there's enough people willing to loan the liquidity so it'll take time but getting these sort of services in place now is probably sensible yeah um but right now the demand's not going to be there in a year two three four years time it'll start to come I think well then that's quite bullish for the future of lightning Innovation isn't it you've got these big firms thinking right we need to get this in place now because the demand is going to be huge for companies wanting to get into this space yeah I'd be interested to like kind of compare them all because obviously bitfinex have theirs with what John carvalo's doing there's a lot of liquidity you could for sale a free peer-to-peer one where you could just yeah look quite it yeah so I'd love to see a comparison of all the fees and stuff and how much you can get from each yeah there's plenty of something there is plenty available what volume also what volume is getting loaned out right yeah yeah yeah because when we run fairly decent size nodes and we don't really need it from anyone um and anyone else in our situation should theoretically probably not need it either um so then the question like what's that says who out who is the guys that I need who are these guys oh we're just in a luxury position that we don't need it yeah it could be I'd appreciate gateways payment gateways are like the bit pays and the likes I don't have both way transactions although I think they kind of do now um they're the ones that might need some inbound um and there might be others I'm trying to think who else we had some scenarios didn't we that might require it at some points but they're not big enough companies at the minute like you're saying that all right yeah if you've got a million quid and you need light and liquidity and you're saying yeah you want to use that million quid as capital to spend on the company and grow the company but how much lightning liquidity do you actually need you don't need a million quids with unless it depends yeah you just won't know but I suppose but you might not need it up front with 10 grand worth of it how big your transactions are you doing if you're doing 100 Grand transactions or something which you're not doing online then yeah you might need 100 to 200 300 grams of liquidity but you don't need that and you won't need that until you grow and you should grow with that requirement so initially you might need 10 grand so you can afford to a lot 10 around the view million quidding to lock that up and then over time as you get bigger then of course it becomes I think at the larger scale it becomes an issue so if you need you know 20 million locked in there at any one point in time you probably don't want to hold 20 million but it would it would only take one or two massive multinational conglomerates type companies nestl├ęs of the world or something like that to go down the lightning route and require that sort of volume but they wouldn't it depends you can't just yeah it's daily throughput and things as well like you know you don't want to be open and closing channels every day and all that sort of stuff but if you've got liquidity going both directions you can just like if we've got 100 Grand Lots it depends what Nestle doing on a daily basis and what transactions are going through but if you are doing if they're doing big transactions you'd probably do it on chain in some regard because what are they doing if you're doing it via lightning then yeah generally it's the smaller transactions and if you've got so many small transactions going through at large volume that's that's that Niche scenario that you end up with yeah that's a good point so it's hard at the minute to justify that's why we've not jumped into at the minute because we will look obviously always looking at and paying attention and medium term it'll be there but it's a product that we will have on our does it fit into your airport analogy the like is it is it the equivalent of companies having to lend and lend a plane I guess is that what it is it's like the ones that do because the airport analogy was right yeah is there the best example of how to explain the line in network to a complete novice right yeah I think that's the best one I've seen I'm not sure who came up with them but was it you no was it no no no no it's a good one but we were always like oh that's how it is now you were gonna add to it or make adjustments to it I think but like this would be like people loaning the plane right for a route yeah it's kind of we we see it a lot of money or fly B and stillbot air I think do it so it's always operated by stillbot air but you can fly b-plane yeah it's an example it's a real world example that's how Airlines do work yeah so yeah this route could be operated by c plus c equals yeah yeah I'm waiting for the part two of the airport analogy two we got this in I was meant to be at that time to just go around to it there's other things to add in as well but yeah um should add like Ellen URL on top and how that works yeah you can do it all right I'm ready for the world's biggest technology but it is it's digestible it's it's yeah it's very much a real world example of how it works I'll have to think how lightning addresses work we'll figure that one out get on that good content as well to be first it is no the animation needs to do and that's why I'm looking at you yeah nice voiceover as well yeah we don't want Danny can't understand it well there's America it's going can we have subtitles I never realized all these years like people can't understand what I'm saying until yeah so what's done is trying to say is translate that into English for you yeah right animation UK Banks HSBC and Nationwide Nationwide Dave it's not Bank Bill's side no it's not got that wrong yeah well I didn't get that wrong the headlines go wrong okay as always uh Banning crypto purchases with credit cards so this again making out to be a bigger thing than it is I mean we've seen that for the last three or four years there's always some banks getting involved with that on there we lost from 2014 we lost our banking through HSBC and through Lloyds at the time so yeah we've we've already lost it due to um of the year so but you can still make Bank transfers it's yeah still use your dick can you still use your debit card is it just credit card right so it's mounting out of molehill so yeah the HSBC are blocking credit cards which they've already been doing for a while that's not news but for some reason it's cropped up again um which is understandable it's credit cards so that's understandable um Nationwide again blocking credit cards um Nationwide have also said was it nationwide or Lloyd's I think it's Nationwide says Nationwide in here but I'm doubting whether it is now um they were limiting debit card transactions up to I think it was four thousand pounds or a day [Music] um it's like four thousand pounds a day yeah you I mean okay that seems like a reasonable limit to avoid fraud yeah I think this is the part that it's not necessarily an attack on crypto this is trying to protect consumers in the sense of Canon consumers for one actually afford it if they're getting out on credit um and for two then the that's the credit cards either then they decide you're touching on there of um four thousand pounds a day for example on whether that's a bank transfer or debit card it's your money so you should be able to do that but they can't handle I think we've touched it before the app fraud which is automatic push payment frauds um so that's and that's heavily it the elderly end uh so the 60 plus age and the vulnerable and they're then sending money to an exchange to buy Bitcoin then they send that Bitcoin onto some investment thing that they're being scammed with so there's a part of the banks there that can't quite yeah handle I think that is handling it is the quickest way to handle it is just put a limit it's actually time yeah yeah yeah I mean it's like no one built out these perfect systems to cope with app where everyone gets like a phone call and treated and given enough time because they're you know they're still a business they can't give everyone that amount of the two bigger companies yeah so just put the limit in place yeah until they can get on top of it understand how it works yeah so it's not a negative towards crypto I don't think in any way or Bitcoin but it's a a reaction to the banks trying to solve a problem that they can't at the minute get a proper procedure in place um it is annoying though it's annoying but I haven't been able to use my debit card for two years on our own platform that's quite funny yeah yeah so I can do bank transfer fine yeah just won't let me use my debit card you've got to ring up and then get until unblock it and then you can use it for once and then it happens again can we not to speak to that's not Wesley it's not worse what is ring fence so it's now the head office will be here so if you can speak to someone yeah but yeah it's frustrating but you can see why they're doing it I mean yeah is it like is it a push away from card usage in general like is always the bank transfer for me is a much nicer what funnel for us anyway yeah I agree when I first joined it was very unusual to see a bank transfer method on a website I remember yeah thinking that yeah has that changed slightly because we've we've definitely flipped in terms of uh the biggest deposit method for us used to be card by a considerable amount and then about four years ago started you could just see it and now it's completely flipped we never really had banging going back to something yeah 2014 when we lost UK back in we had to go to Eastern Europe and so on with that was like International payments and like you say people got on a website making a bank transfer already is odd and then making an international bank transfer which a lot of people had never done in their life so they were just too big red flags but again it boils down to these Visa Mastercard it's more expensive to deposit on card right because of these intermediaries we were charging seven and a half percent at the time back in 2014 15 for card because that's how much they were charging because we were high risk industry we were charged seven and a half percent from the car processors to process that so then that was going on to the customer because obviously we can't say that here um and that was yeah to come and buy Bitcoin because you were losing seven and a half percent just from depositing money into the system um which was crazy but you know we survived on that for a number of years really it's 2019 did we get UK banking um which yeah it's crazy and now it's flipped now I think so the cards declining massively that's increasing so I've never I don't think I've ever used card on our platform at historically oh yeah I was always using it until we got the UK Banking and then did not you can pump up the sort of Auto uh buys and made it simpler yeah but I'd be interested to see how many newbies would opt for card um so I've never paid anywhere else online with bank transfer yeah it boils down to again the a trust thing doesn't it because you can like especially credit card as well you can yeah it was an intermediary there yeah you can charge back yeah yeah that's another reason why the credit card piece why you would block that because it's you don't want the man to charge back and cause lots of costs lots of pain yeah lots of hassle yeah that is what it is I think at the minute it's not where did that news article appear why do we was it just like it was all over and everything and this is an attack on bitcoin again last two weeks really probably not it's been everywhere and that's there was one guy saying about trying to relate it to choke point in like the us but it's not that's not what this is that's not how we're seeing it no not at all um I guess when you logically think through what are they doing and what's happening there they're trying to put steps in place to prevent something and they they don't have a procedure ready to go now so it'll happen soon need your reactions like this to do but preventing something that we also agree does need preventing rights yeah apps it's a nightmare for us yeah okay right so uh one last one no there can't be any left we've still gotta do we're going to do q a piece I know what time well this is this is that one oh Zach's one you won't have read it I haven't read it yeah you haven't no no no I've not read this one either because I didn't I was just in the headline really what was it uh but Kelly said tourism group by 95 after they made Bitcoin legal tender I think he said it on Tucker Carlson's show I saw that it was in Spanish I can understand it I saw that that Max Kaiser wearing a 2024 but Kelly yeah I was gonna send it to you I was like definitely going for re-election yeah Thanksgiving isn't he has to I think the tourism boosts from the Bitcoin has massively helped them out though then we think it definitely happened and we said it's been reported everywhere in terms of GDP as well how many people have you ever heard of said I am going on holiday 12 Salvador yeah and like now we do see people well we've actually been sent videos of people there we've there's that lightning chain where we actually sent Joe Joe yeah whilst he was there so we we have seen him everyone's visiting for the conferences yeah a thousand people at conference there it's a thousand tourists if that's something that you brought in for what previously you've had zero so I can probably understand that stats probably true I would imagine right um that's not necessarily that's maybe because the lack of Tourism previously more than anything um but it has worked okay but it's just another maybe a little trojan horse that you can start to feed other countries of like tourism can go up by adopting this it's not it's not gonna happen in the UK though is it no no no no no no no tourism tourism has probably gone up slightly from it I think they've had a conference there that'd be worth asking them wouldn't it we could get that from them can we [Music] I would say I would agree with you there because we now know people that are going there more frequently um I think that'll tail off the light yeah initially they're the first one so they've got the 95 the next one might be eight years as well weren't it the novelty will go right that's why they need to attract the businesses right even these that's why they're offering like there's three Bitcoins for citizenship or whatever and they're doing the conferences and would you be tempted about it I think no Max Kaiser says he's on a mission to bring over oh she yeah do you not tempted to move to El Salvador no I'm okay remote work here no all right you know I like to visit though I like tourism it's only different than me because I've got three kids [Laughter] but it is on my list to go to now so it's work tourism has worked it's put them on the map I think that's sometimes a lot of the that's the big piece and then everything else follows um all right same with the that small island Boca Ray Boracay yeah the Filipino yeah but that's extremely touristy yeah it's already yeah I'd never heard of it well Francis was telling me that yeah that's the place to go Philippines because it's touristy and he was gonna go he's going yeah this year nice to visit as a tourist as a tourist it's not because of Bitcoin no okay but he's going to use Bitcoin wiser yeah I'm gonna set up some videos nice other kill you should be able to use a bolt card game though I'll have to check if that's works with our POS yeah that'd be good though yeah anyway cool right new segment new segment oh yeah how did it go so I've been using this spray as of my wife initially thought although she's like World of her own but she thought because it was can you clip that no no that's like she I was doing marijuana I thought she thought I'd walk marijuana I suppose the front of that yeah but she thought she was like why are you realizing drugs and I was like no this is just a you know cannabis oil it's you know it's supposed to be relaxant but I haven't convinced her to actually use any yet and I was wondering if that's probably a barrier in that industry has all the time actually to associate it with drug taking but um yeah I sprayed it under my tongue and over the one even though actually quite a few evenings now and it's it's like I don't know quite I don't know this placebo effect or something I bet maybe it's quite relaxing but I was just like a little yeah yeah that's relaxing I think for like anxiety and stuff like that yeah maybe if you've gone on a plane and you're bad with flying and stuff like that that'll help relax as well yeah um it kind of reminded me like just having a cup of tea you know that's sort of relaxing it's like that and chill out so I certainly didn't feel nothing else caffeine and should probably no it doesn't yeah Wide Awake like you do an espresso because like it's the caffeine in a different form isn't it in the Tea Leaf isn't it not in the actual so anyway but yeah so yeah I've been trying it it's cool yeah good let's see see how it goes helps you sleep yeah I think yeah I don't need that much help sleeping that's not what you were saying last week I need not going to sleep it's like 5 30 so we can't really get up and spray it then gonna 5 30 a.m my issue that's Wide Awake every day cool cool so that's her temp is that one of our Merchants accepting Bitcoin yeah online right yeah have they got a store physical physical that's a good question not sure I'll research just online but just wondering they might have a little store GMO free is that genetically modified yeah should we well Mike is checking yeah physical store they haven't it doesn't look like it now and why would you we need extra overhead yeah that's true we need a we need a fancy bowl for this don't we need it handle on the side to me building deaths out drawers and then we come in with a fancy Bowl fancy Bowl I know that's why we're sticking with it we've done exactly that I guess I make I might make one and you guys want to pick one so this is question so ask people for questions on socials um and we've got questions here from people are we just gonna pick one a week not the FA Cup draw one a week it could be man united player actually I hope you picked a good one so this is a question from dead for tax reasons I think is this handle What In your experience are the most often cited reasons for businesses not accepting Bitcoin and following on from that how many of these concerns are actually as important as they seem well the energy thing is the biggest one I would say I think God yeah I think there's there's a main one for me and then there's a secondary wants to surprise me one and the secondary one I think that energy one falls in the secondary Camp along with Bitcoin price fluctuations which again is a nothing issue and so yeah it's not an issue at the energy one again not an issue um the primary one for me is just understanding businesses don't understand Bitcoin a lot of these people you try and talk to them and say do you want to accept Bitcoin they'll just say no it's blanket knows because they don't want to learn something new just not interested they're trying to focus on running their business just saying do you want to accept Bitcoin is unless it's a bitcoiner or someone that actually has then heard of it or wants to kind of hear a little bit more because they have some sort of Interest people are just going to say no because you're not giving them a reason it's like the reason why you want to accept Euros no thanks you've got to give them a reason to why do you want to accept Bitcoin this Bitcoin can do X Y and Z for you and this is how it can help you yeah you have to show people how it can help your business most of these people running a business they just care about their bottom line of their business and increasing that not accepting some random news and technology that they don't understand and don't know anything about it's the time to educate as well is an issue isn't it if you completely green to it then it like there is a learning curve because bitcoin's got the stigma and people associate with like Silk Road type areas yeah still yeah and you've got to break down that barrier and then you've got to make people understand about lightning and how that can save them a lot of money I think that's the thing you're touching fees you don't have to get them to understand all that we have to get them to how does it benefit the business yeah not understand Bitcoin it's just how does it benefit they don't care about Bitcoin they just care about how it benefits their business but the walls are already built for some people aren't they it's like they're not willing just to take that time and say this is how it'll benefit you the red headlines and that's all they know about Bitcoin so it's just a no before you can even talk about it you can't go at John accept Bitcoin and they've read headlines and they said no straight away see you later you've got to go in it actually if you accept Bitcoin you can this can we can help improve X Y and Z but you've almost got to approach with foot busting the headlines like lead with that of like you're not exposed to volatility what we do isn't it yeah I think with enough time right we could get any Merchant it like I do believe that because they'll see the positive and it's just it'll take time from that Merchant and as to get them yeah the lead the the runway for getting a merchant on board is a long time it takes a long time so people people's understanding I guess some of that you can't just don't get me wrong sometimes we have gone and just turned up at a shop and they'll say if you want to accept Bitcoin and they'll be like oh yeah I'll do that and they jump straight on within a day you've got someone um still there's the sign up process there's integration process there's still lots of things there that have to play out in the background and it can take even for the simplest of shops it can still take a couple of weeks to get someone on board but the majority of our businesses have taken years to get on board like one of them I was talking to back in 2014 they didn't go live until 2020. we are talking about a broad scope of merchants like the merch and was amazing they're a big Esports company should call it um so the very large Esports company but that took six years of talking to them dealing with them over the years things weren't in place properly at the time so banking was a a problem in certain areas we still see that no lightning remember when we used to always have the problem of oh other other coins can you like a plethora of other things and we like there's like no one ever uses any of those to yeah payment volume you will never ever need the only time we ever see that is on bit refill is the only company I've ever seen say oh yeah loads of people are using the alts and stuff like that and they give their stats out and it don't really looks like a lot of people are using Litecoin and these other ones in bitpay you've got their stats that show Litecoin is quite heavily used um but I would love to be in criticizing critical again I'd like to know what merchants are using Litecoin for them transactions because they also put out transactions not volume right so they're putting out how many the percentage of the transactions so if they've got a merchant that accepts Litecoin for uh depositing in some random Lottery game or something like that and it costs 5p to enter or something you could have the Litecoin Community there just going I'm not saying they are but you can get them going on and say and just doing loads of bets constantly and faking the numbers and it's because the numbers are so small at the minute still it wouldn't take much to fake and make an impact on these numbers and then obviously the bit refill side people holding bugs with all these random all coins you know the easiest way to you obviously can sell them or you can just go and buy a gift card with them but it's definitely died off in terms of that that was a question of two years ago I would say now I don't think it's as the Forefront of what merchants require they're not that I don't think no it depends on that's definitely decline in terms of you'll come around again though probably it depends on the industry as well I think some of the industries are more like throw every payment method you can think of um because they don't care they just want to add payment methods and they think they'll grab more customers that way yeah that what they don't realize we've we have had this happen once a industry and Company but they've wanted all the altcoins we said no just Bitcoin they did go with us for Bitcoin they all did they start with us and then they left us and went for alts and then about 12 months later or something they come back and they realize the feedback they gave us was yeah all the customer support issues they weren't prepared for basically all the alts and all the problems that come with it and they just come back to simple process yeah um so we have had that experience and as much as you sit there and explain to people yeah you've got these other hundreds some of the uh all the crypto gateways end up saying like you know we've got 500 coins that you can deposit with and stuff so some people that's like there's loads of people they can catch with all that but the reality is what happens behind the scenes there of all the confirmations Every Chain is different confirmations every transaction looks different on a different like you end up with customer as much as you might think you're not going to get them you're going to get customer support questions saying I've made a transaction and the order's not been completed or it's failed or whatever and that means that company has to deal with 500 a knowledge base of 500 random coins less to do like buy an answer do it because I think they because they're not crypto Gateway though yeah completely closed do we want to go around this again slide on something oh no yeah okay so but that's what I'm saying with enough time and enough exposure to these Merchants we can convince anyone right because the fundamental doesn't change it would save the money uh for a merchant with a POS it removes yes settlement times quicker right and it's cheaper but I think the big thing what we there is the angle obviously of merchants except in Bitcoin and that's great from like you walk in and paying in a shop or you pay online but behind the scenes is what I'm more interested in a lot of the time now yeah how can that Merchants make use of Bitcoin behind the scenes that helps them save money and settlement times and things like if they're moving cash between entities and countries and things like that can you do it by a Bitcoin quicker and easier and save some money yeah and that's more I guess what we're focused on so they're behind the scene companies rather than front-facing companies yeah which is what our sun globally is all about as well isn't it yeah it's a big part of that um so yeah I think there's it's a complex subject isn't it I guess it's just going back to the question what was the question yeah well most often what are the most often side reasons for businesses not accepting Bitcoin okay so we're saying it's time having time to actually invest into learning about it I think yeah uneducated just a plain no they're just not interested the energy use what's energy usage energy use we've lost energy use of lost Merchants from yeah because then we have to explain like take time to explain to them why that's extremely footy yeah they've got that from trusted resources for ESG stuff and we're like saying no well fiat's secured by an army so what's the yeah yeah it wasn't good yeah but we we got uh Elon versus my opinion and they believed Elon over me and that's why they then scrapped us off they went live with us for about a day and then disappeared and was that particular one um and they're not going to be Elon in an opinion which is ridiculous because he knows nothing about crypto um yeah it's the whole yeah the actual but he has that industry expert versus yeah just the okay he has the clout um to do so and altcoins we've lost customers due to not having loads 500 alt coins on but as we've learned people slowly come back in our direction as well um for I guess a smoother hopefully better service uh and what was the other one you said before ESG and what was the other examples oh price volatility yeah yeah but that's just not understanding that it doesn't really come into the equation does it easily explain they don't realize that you can flip the Bitcoin straight into pounds or euros and once they've realized that I think it's that you say okay they invoice for a hundred pounds they get 100 pounds they don't realize that they think the price is going to move and they don't know what they're going to get and it's that once you get them over that barrier but you want to get to that one once you've got communication going yeah yeah if you get the no at the start just because they've read a headline and they're just they just also depends the hardest thing in any sales though isn't it because people would like those yeah even if it does benefit them with any product they just be like yeah a lot of these are kind of region based I would say as well like someone in another part of the world might not be so concerned about the volatility issue if their local currency is just as volatile or if not more yeah perhaps we're talking very much from a UK focused emergent adoption Army okay good question though right yeah thank you not his real name well he's dead for tax reasons oh it doesn't have a name I had a name right well who knows okay cool no coin Corner news this week I think we've touched on Plenty okay well Furious about the no coin Corner News I am giving someone yeah if you would like to bring some um oh we do we had the stats this week didn't we I think they went out on Twitter last end of last week um it's a past our Bitcoin sense yeah you remember that I can't remember the number No 53 percent fundamentally Lightning's used for smaller amounts yeah so volume's gonna yeah very hard to flip right but if you can see that which Trend it's showing that there's more obviously the usage as well yeah it will increase because our volume actually per transactions probably increased on lightning um we historically when we first started with lightning we was Tiny three percent great memory we were tiny but then I think our average I'm gonna end up guessing there and getting the complete wrong number lightning volume transaction foreign massively online in over the years so as it improves more and more the higher we can go yeah okay cool very good all good right thank you guys busy week right peace next week yeah there will be [Music] thank you