Hierarchical Bitcoin Lightning Channels | Britcoiners by CoinCorner #85

Join Danny, Molly, and Zakk for this weeks ramblings. Topics this week include: Bitcoin price, Bitcoin devs propose hierarchical Lightning channels, FTX consider relaunching in Q2, Fuji, Twitter "partners" with eToro, IMF to issue CBDB handbook, Project Icebreaker, $3B Silk Road Bitcoin thief sentenced to 1 year, Rep. Davidson to change SEC structure Our Merchant of the Month is Herts Hemp (https://www.hertshemp.com/) A video version of this episode is available on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@CoinCornerLtd This episode is sponsored by CoinCorner (https://www.coincorner.com) - A global leader in Bitcoin and Lightning services.

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largest hotel left for being a little [ __ ] right we're ready to have to speed this up because we're gonna have to do this lesson now we've got me here for yeah yeah it's about five two five okay cool let's face it Dave Matthew a good comment on the last one in the middle of a conversation no just keep up the good works again go back welcome back uh this week price usual uh project Icebreaker uh Bitcoin devs proposing hierarchical hierarchy I can't say hierarchical channels um to boost lightning Network scalability FTX and launching exchange Fuji public beer Twitter launching crypto trading IMF the cbdc handbooks um the silk for a three billion dollar Silk Road theft and representative Davidson introducing legislation to it's not to fire SMC basketball at headline obviously is to fire SOC pass Gary Denzel whoa let's go there we go no Dave again no Dave honestly oh well it'd be a nice little Park after that is what it is yeah we've podcasted a lot faster and less uh like there's no underlying anger I don't think unless about Dave yeah yeah exactly I want to say listen Maximus as well yeah well we say it was faced out when there's too much Universal still won season come on yeah um what's the price then then 29 372 yeah it was just breaching the 30 last week one I made a week around 30 to 31 and then back to 29 yeah well after just this morning it was 30 this morning when I woke up did that um not much want to stay alive no I don't know why it could drop so if I'm honest I don't know if there's anything with anyone seen do you put the the thing is do it's not really a drop though is it you know in the grand scheme of things down a couple hundred quid but they General fluctuation yeah it's not like saying no I don't think there's any news that's really made to do that obviously markets open Monday morning there's often movement's there but um yeah there's nothing particular yeah hey baby I can't wait for the ball run now we'll be like 40K this week oh 45k 50K yeah yeah it has been very stable isn't it yeah and then the good old uh John Jump Street way for project Icebreaker women's basketball yeah I don't know all the body went on in on me it probably did the video that video on its name I think I don't know what that is but it sounds like a corporate like yeah it's very cool conference thing or let's have a project ice breaker everybody stand up and say your name we should do that for ourselves like for all our developments we do we should like the projects we'll give them a project name from now we'll call them by like code names see how long that lasts I like it and then there's been nothing really at a project volcano finally well that one is clever wait till you get to the aspirations okay um Bitcoin does propose hierarchy hierarchy I can never say that word channels hierarchy hierarchical hierarchical vehicle channels produced by the network scalability you have questions on this model because we have not read it I mean I've read it but I didn't understand it and I thought that you guys the intestines might be able to explain it so pretty face this with means I have not read it we're going to weave the answers okay right so I'll just I've read someone comment on it right I'll go I'll go through the points for anyway and then that's gonna expand on if you if you've got an answer so developers are exploring the use of higher icons just call it hierarchy hierarchy channels to help speed up and make lightning Network more scalable it allows for a flexible off-chain resizing of channels enabling quick and cheap resizing without unchain transactions which add delays and costs this is the bit where I don't understand so what do you what does it mean by resizing channels allowing for flexible off-chain resizing of channels um yeah so I think I've been working on this for a while um so imagine we both have a lightning node yeah I've we've got one Bitcoin locked in together yeah so that was in order to lock that Bitcoin in it required an on-chain transaction so now say I want to resize that and actually I want to lock two Bitcoins in with you okay at the moment I would have to open another Channel with you on chain or close that one down and reopen it which is all Unchained transactions yeah this essentially allows us to resize it so bring it up to a two Bitcoin Channel without having to go on chain okay using this fancy Tech um okay so it just means less of a non-chain footprint required for resizing lightning channels meaning it's Theory you should never have to close your lightning channels was there a new different name for this yeah I don't know if this is a different way of doing it because I think this one doesn't require a Bitcoin Soft Walk to do right but I think the original way does was in the ptlc's yeah I don't know how this one works because I haven't read it but not as much as I know that's interesting so is it yes this is quite a common thing that people want to resize in China yeah so this dish just helps obviously lighting without being Bitcoin scale because some of the United will have lightning scale even more um because you just don't have to go back on chain so it's less of an Unchained footprint when you don't need it essentially okay that's cool pretty simple explanation that's cool um but that'll still be that's in the pipe it's been this idea has been in the pipeline for the years yeah yeah it'll still be a year or so way before there's a lot of them for you to see anything yeah there's a lot of them in terms of like even things like matching Channel opens and things like that and then people talking about the change in size and and so on and you know will be very handy once you say you can batch people always say there's like that example is another the someone around the numbers on it and said that you know it'll take was it for seven years or something to open a channel lightly channel for every single person on the planet something ridiculous because of Bitcoins block size being too small to do it and perhaps you don't get so many transactions in the block and so on um but then if you take into account you can batch open Lightning channels which obviously will allow you for much more much money much more much more transactions with inside uh well much more outputs inside the transaction which would allow for much more channels to be created within the block um that would then allow scalability to be much better and I think there was a guy who ran it was like 21 days something like it was oh yeah for a number of days or maybe a small amount of weeks that I would actually take to open a channel based off current throughput by batching every Channel open um to as big as a transaction as you could it would only take a matter of say weeks to actually create a channel for every single person on the planet which we know is also not a realistic thing people are not going to open a channel for every single person on the planet and not particularly anytime soon but if you can change the size of the channels like Zach saying there as well on top of things like the batching side all of a sudden okay you take and you said take a month to open the channel for every single person on Earth then you could just automatically change the size of that channel then all of a sudden you only have to open a channel for yourself once theoretically in your lifetime this is ridiculously high level yeah it's all respect when transaction takes one confirmation technically you can do it zero confirmations so important why are you saying if you opened a channel for every single person on the planet seven billion people on planet that's seven billion channels you have to open yeah so that's seven billion Bitcoin transactions okay but then if you batch one transaction with a thousand outputs which will be a thousand channels theoretically so you could then start to like scale it better and then obviously if you can change the size of that channel whenever you feel like it then obviously you can alter that and adapt and you don't have to then keep opening closing channels you can just have one Channel created and then we use that for the rest of your life obviously that'd be connected to some a node that if that no level goes down you'd have to close and then you get the the general gist of scaling I think the takeaway is scaling even with the lighting he's still being worked on and there's still lots to come and actually it's showing that these sort of things will be possible and you'll even be able to scale to pretty much infinite it works in just simple terms as well you might have initially opened a line-in Channel with you for example of thinking the volume we're going to do is going to be half a Bitcoin over the next year oh either yeah it doesn't really matter just through the channel yeah and we could go a bit too but then you could do that forever you could do that for a thousand Bitcoins or transactions but still just one of my maths I can do is only what the channel sizes and one transaction yeah so then we might you know if a business partners or whatever we're doing more business between each other we need to expand the channel so we're doing more volume and it saves us having to do an arm chain transaction wearing times like if the backlog's full and that kind of thing yeah it's quite cool on the flip side of that people will potentially argue and think that you know the um lock space and the fees um becomes an issue that's like the ordinals crowd out there saying ordinals will create a free market for the miners and things like that because there's if the transactions have all been taken off chain onto lightning then obviously there is less transaction fees for mines which is why they're trying to like the ordinals is good because there's lots of on-chain fees and the miners need that to keep continuing but right now they don't and that's a market that I guess nobody knows the answer to how we see that plays out in the future when I say the future it's like you know this is potentially 100 years away or something I'm going to be here to see it I do want to get my head into how technically this works though because if you're expanding the size of a channel a Bitcoin has to come from somewhere if you're not doing an on-chain transaction yeah I don't want to want to work out technically how that works yeah well if you have to have so much in these original original track directions or something yeah so you can then lock in with the same address so yeah yeah would you just send Bitcoin into that address at some point if needed to be to top up again but then you're already doing an Unchained transaction to top that up so um yeah yeah I'm not quite sure how it technically works but I'll find out something positive that's cool yeah all the steps in the right direction and more more scalability this is good cool um quick one FTX not spoke about them for a while thankfully uh FTX recovered see this is funny I've not looked to detail this but means I'm talking honestly so the headline is FTX bankrupt FTX I've recorded 7.3 billion dollars in assets and reconsidering relaunching their Exchange in Q2 this year um which will be able to have ridiculous that is in a minute what means that were talking about on this was the price from when they went bankrupt than when they were trying to figure out it was like December time when they were trying to figure out how much they actually had in their assets and they actually had a hold of which I think when it was like 2.1 million two points from a billion um and now they're saying they've recovered seven over seven billion but actually it was say two and a half Bill 2.4 billion or whatever it was at the time but the price was like sixteen thousand dollars at the time the price is nearly double now so in theory they've probably got nearly 5 billion anyway just from the original chunk of it so that probably only recovered an extra maybe one or one to two billion actually from the original chunk that they go and just because the price has gone up now the value of that obviously is a lot more explain that in some ways but I don't think I've seen any detailed that so far um so I even that in itself it sounds a bit ridiculous but then obviously them looking to relaunch I don't know I can't even think what I like I don't know how well one is like how they're allowed yeah um they try and actually do it they won't be allowed they'll have to I assume they're gonna have to put because I'm not sure the bankruptcy is going through the US is it has it gone through where was that headquarters of course yeah they were in the Bible as well at one point so we did go through Bahamas but then it was the US that's probably the minions being arrested by the us so I I don't know who the bankruptcy is going through at the minute I can't quite remember um it's been too long since for lots of these but if they assume they'd have to get say the US the US whatever Department would have to give them permission and they'd I guess in theory have to make a good argument as to why relaunching would help recover the funds for what they've lost for their customers or something really not sure um it just sounds ridiculous no I mean if you just even if they relaunched a new researching them on Google surely all the news have come up before the actual search results straight away for anyone who hasn't heard about it anyone say any PR as good appear yeah so I it just seems like a just absolutely crazy headline story thought process I can't make sense of why how they would even consider that I don't even know who's behind me who is FDX yeah that's the the CEO that took over is like the uh well he took over just to go through the bankruptcy because he's done it in previous roles hasn't um yeah I would assume they'd relaunch with a brand new management team yeah yeah yeah John J Ray III James [Music] yeah there's not one it's not two three of them they should just re-launch with the name backwards XTF yeah there you go again um but yeah I just can't believe that they didn't consider that it seems crazy but maybe they've got some ridiculous argument as to why it'll be able to help recuperate all the Lost funds Moon yeah look forward to that planner Fuji you had questions again this is another one we should pre-faced with at all on this yeah but you had questions about it I mean yeah I had a quick look at it um was there a milkshake yeah [Laughter] I think it's a place I shouldn't walk a few seconds um yeah and I had a quick look at it but um I don't know I feel like I'm speaking on behalf of hopefully other people who are too scared or too embarrassed to speak up or not understanding any of this um so yeah they they put out a tweet basically announcing the public beta of their the Fuji app is it Fuji Fuji Fuji I'm gonna say Fuji um so the decentralized and non-custodial borrowing protocol allowing users to draw loans against Bitcoin used as collateral locked in smart contracts called safes like to me that's just like I can't I can't break that down like that's just a lot of big words in a big sentence that I don't understand yeah [Laughter] like DLCs to yeah I think so yeah contract you've got to break it down because he's so like me when people know when people still buy like small contracts basically someone's a lightning now lightning is created and you create a transaction between my node and your node when you're opening their channels yeah and that locks in one Bitcoin for example so like Zach saying they're on half a Bitcoin what's on your channel you've actually got some something locked in there and if we've got the channel between those if I want to close that channel I would close it and say right send if we've I've sent only 0.4 Bitcoin the cost of you that's about 0.6 on my side I can close the channel and take my 0.6 back and we both agree that both our nodes agree that because our book basically ties up with each other um there's things around you can argue for I could say actually I've got for one Bitcoin trying to like screw you out of it but you you wouldn't um you wouldn't agree and you'd disagree and then the bad actor would basically get slapped the key to it is is it means you don't have to trust each other I think that's a key factor yeah so you don't have to trust Danny to give you that 0.6 the contract is the trust essentially okay so from my understanding again this is because I've not read how exactly this Fuji Works um they I assume are doing something similar to that and they will lock that smart contracts essentially in to say right there's we put I put one Bitcoin collateral and somebody say you've learned me uh the equivalent in uh USD stable points FUSD FUSD okay so this is a new thing I think as well um a new stable gun Fuji yes yeah maybe [Music] um so that'll be at Fuji USD so I have let's say say I've made some numbers easy so I have lots of hundred thousand dollars worth of bitcoin into that channel should we call it and then you would loan me the food FUSD in the FUSD you might loan at 50 collateral that we agreed before one so you actually loan me fifty thousand dollars of FUSD and I've you've then got a hundred thousand dollars in my Bitcoin lots of so as I would then pay you back there'll be like timelines payment reschedules and all that sort of payment schedules um and then if bitcoin price dropped to say 60 um and it came down to 60 000 and then maybe I'd have to top up that Bitcoin address and that contract with some more collaterals to make sure it moves up backwards say 70 or whatever I guess it will be whatever the contracts that the part is going to need at the time and it shouldn't really be able to move that uh it's different things I think in the stable coin just talk around with it is linked to liquid as well I'm not quite sure how it went to liquid in certain ways um but it's I guess this is the direction it's it's kind of like D5 angle people have been trending D5 and all coins and stuff on these others Within These smart contracts you always have to remember as well that there is room for exploitation and yeah well that's the thing is a lot of D5 projects yeah so I I don't understand really why this is because it's simpler theoretically there'll be less um surface for an attack basically I mean this is just a part of the industry that I just I can't get my head around I don't understand outside buying and selling things yeah I think it's from a technical point of view it's pretty cool but yeah I don't I don't know if there's a demand for a normal collateralized loan Priceless the only way I think we always talk about is like say UK and us and things is tax efficient um because then you could put your 100 000 of Bitcoin down take a fifty thousand dollar loan against it and pay that back over time with a little bit of interest and on their own but you would then keep hold of your Bitcoin and then if the Bitcoin price goes up to two hundred thousand dollars for example in that the value of country on then you can take another loan and say that you can get more back and you would be able to actually make use of that money rather than selling your Bitcoin so it wouldn't realize a capital gain and then it'd be a taxable event right so it potentially is people's way around taking loans instead of selling the Bitcoin to allow them to avoid taxable with them potential yeah absolutely yeah both the the risk the downside of that is if the price drops then you could get liquidated and you have to Auto I assume it would Auto Sell your Bitcoin for you again I'm not sure where they pull the US dollar at the price probably I wonder if you first order to release that Bitcoin to the other party I assume they didn't go and sell it I assume it would so as an everyday person though why would you do this over just taking out a regular one um so this the taxable event so if you've got Bitcoin yeah you're gonna take that loan if you go and get a loan from um Partners or whatever the maximum UK is usually like 25k is the maximum personal loan then beyond that it becomes a bit more difficult but you've got then Credit Credit X and provide loads of information and so on whereas this you could effectively take the loan theoretically from anyone else around the world you may not know that person is and you can take a loan from it's almost like peer-to-peer learning right um and you wouldn't have to have a credit check done you know you just put that Bitcoin up this collateral so it avoids I guess it avoids credit checks probably hassle because you probably do it fairly instantaneous and once it's all set up and working access to a different currency if you don't want to sell Bitcoin isn't that essential yeah but you need access to cash um so there is and again because it's a broader than a taxable event there if you don't want to get stung and you need to need some cash for some reason quickly um or you want a larger than say 25k and it's just an easier way to get um again trying to think like you know if you've got a million quiz worth of bitcoin but banks are hard work when it comes to selling and providing source of where that Bitcoins come from and so on and even though it's perfectly legitimate there's no issues with that where the Bitcoins come from um not only the questions get asked Banks obviously sometimes don't even want to try to do the judgments they just say no you're not doing that see you later um I mean I know that historically myself and a lot of other people um I was talking about was it Santander the other day because they still have the policy apparently of if you travel for a mortgage with Santander and your deposit comes from crypto and they just blank it say no they're not even trying to check on it oh really um yeah so for example like this you wouldn't be able to go get a mortgage because your deposit would come from crypto right um so yeah I was years ago when I went for a mortgage through them until about seven years ago now six seven years ago and they said no to the crypto so yeah I've did a couple of others um but that was years ago now you expect some sort of slightly change but apparent sounds are there which is crazy because sometimes their own portion of coinbase I think their investment arm invested in coinbase or wildlife um okay I mean it's still very confusing I think the main thing going forwards is that yes it's complicated in the background and all these big fancy words and things the reality is like for example we could end up building into the coin Corner app that might just be um some hypothetical situation we have it in corner app and you can just from there click right you want alone click a button say how much you want to loan and you'll have your Bitcoin your coin Corner wallet and you'll say you've got 100 Grand again people say right I want 10 grand loan they'll say right you've got a lot 20 grams of three Bitcoin up in here clickable and does that gives you the FUSD theoretically you can almost flip that FUSD into GDP or Euro whatever the currency you want at that point and then you can go off and use your loan and it's like in the background it's taken a loan from so other party and we've just put a nice fancy front face on it to make it the ux nice and simple for the customer yeah or behind the scenes as well as complicated things going on but you don't need to know what's happening there um you need to know the risks and who you're doing that with and so on and all that stuff but technically you'd have to know anything and So eventually the ux will become much much nicer yeah I think this is the thing like when they put out these announcements they are just like for their everyday person you know like that that obviously been in this industry like eight nine years now and stuff like this is still way over my head but then it's not it's not something I'm really interested in I'm just like buying Bitcoin that's technical isn't it it's techy yeah so it's confusing to a lot of people yeah next uh this was hopefully very quick one Twitter launching crypto and stock trading in partnership with the Torah just winds me up the not the Twitter thing that really does about quarter but the on Twitter last week when this came out it was like everyone was tweeting about like all the big bitcoin news accounts and things and they were tweeting about uh Twitter ad in uh Bitcoin trading and wallet or something for users of armor and it's like when you're actually them because none of them ever link to any details no sources you actually gotta look at what that is and it looks like it's just they're being an affiliate for retirement that that's the short of it eventually maybe they're going to have their own wallets and try and integrate it all into the app and do everything um because Elon keeps banging on about me his financial outcomes um but the what it is as far as management isn't it only live he said it's live but I think it's like one of them beat alive and probably to a fraction of people in the US no but I think of you know I remember we if you just go bitcoin price it gives you it and then there's a buy button which takes you to etara oh yeah that's what it yeah it's yeah but now there's a place in the settings uh if you go to the settings and then on what section it is yeah um but from there you will then take you to Italian yeah okay so it's they're basically an affiliate free time yeah okay yeah yeah um so I you know I don't get me wrong some people say okay well it's a step in the right direction because they're looking to but they're also adding every [ __ ] coin that etara will have and adding stocks and shares and trading and it makes sense in some ways for Traders on Twitter where you've got lots of Traders on Twitter and you people are talking about stock and you could just have a little icon within that tweet that the stock they're talking about saying go and buy the stock and you can click and link to it but that also makes sense that is is that done has it on my Facebook somebody tried this years ago like on so Facebook and like if you're talking about a particular product it would then in a like a Facebook post or a tweet it would then create like a link to where to go and buy it from and they would then gain them the affiliate commission that they're selling the option so theoretical work in a similar capacity to that and doing that um but it's I guess a Twitter way of trying to how do we make more money more quickly it's a crappy thrown together partnership to try and quickly make some money do you ever get to the button that's why you um put the Doge coin dog I assume because of this and it was like uh I assumes indicator for this is coming yeah um but no idea Oh you mean the logo thing yeah that was from the the guy that Tweed him saying Elon by Twitter and change the logo to the doors going on Elon did reply saying yeah I've done this now so yeah but I don't know if it was because of that or whether it was because there's no actual explanation to it yeah you're asking for Elon to explain thank you that's true I just assume Market manipulation are you sorry did you see the donkey coin chart and oh yeah yeah before it was announced it also started ramping up and then it was announced at shop so it was all the Twitter inside before yeah before and that's so bad I can't help but the love the the dirty stuff though I want to get one only the dogs yeah the dog's name is I mean the whole oh yeah uh IMF uh so you're gonna touch on the smell Isaac but IMF to publish cbdc handbook and responds to increasing demand for guidance which is going to tie into Project's Icebreaker this is right here so I read on this I didn't read this but I kind of skimmed it I think 30 to 40. um countries I've asked the IMF to help with cbdc's IMF for the All-Seeing Experts of cbdc so now they said they are Panic putting together a handbook to 40 countries don't understand what on Earth it is or how it's going to work and yes I'm looking for a central point of guidance office along some expert guidance and I think I've only highlighted this one to talk about was because we've um spoken previously about cnbcs and I was saying we were talking about my thing was I'd like to see a pros and cons eventually yeah so I'd like to see this well exactly in this guidebook we should see a Frozen consulate I'm assuming so I look forward to seeing that guidance whether they'll make that public or whether they'll try and push up privately or be interested I'm sure it'll get leaked at some point Wisconsin 40 different countries um but yeah that not much to talk about on that particular one but that one is also project ice breaker Molly here it comes what does Sweden Norway and Israel haven't come oh I did not expect Israel on the end of that projectiles breaker yeah we need like what if time to break it you ask so Sweden nor Norway and Israel central banks have all come together to do a joint pilot with cbdcs right which essentially is like send globally slash delighted Network for cbdc's um whether using hdlcs which is a lightning Network piece of technology in order to basically root payments between each of their own cbdcs right um and it came with a very cringy video probably yeah so it basically allows these individual countries so Sweden will launch the cbdc yeah in their own local currency so will Norway so will Israel and if I wanna basically send my cbdc convert it for Norwegian cbdc that's using this project Icebreaker project icebreak so this is a remember it's probably maybe about a year ago or something now always we do our little team meetings every couple weeks and um we're talking around cbcs and lightning and I was saying about um making them interoperable with each other so making like you know the UK would have to be interruptable with France and France with um you know Belgium and then with South Africa and with every other country around the world and how you make that interoperable the easy answer is all use like one or use like Bitcoin light and use lighting and then the interruptible and you can flip out in your local currency which is effectively like we would do with like biting up and things like that Partnerships there um going from say pounds in the UK to Nara and Nigeria that where you're we're all using lightning to be that interoperable technology and peace in the middle so these guys are trying to create that interoperable technology piece in the middle which is just lightning yeah using very similar technology in well very similar terminology technology well they do say yeah they do say htlcs yeah but that's just terminology of what yeah something like what that could ever be yeah Bitcoin lightning could be too not completely different things but similar and obviously it wouldn't be decentralized and open source and public health and it'll be very much closed um but I think that so easily what's the control to keep the control of it on there we keep the access to where they could just actually all use lightning and do that exact same thing and then flip out their their end to the local currency because there's a market there for Bitcoin to their local currency so we can easily do that I think going forward is the problem with the really bear going is they're gonna have to get you know they're starting this with uh obviously three or four countries three countries as well by the way yeah two Nordic and then yeah it's project Icebreaker yeah it has their rules I thought the nor did the icebreaking clever name because it's like cold and whatnot oh is that I assume that's what it was all about an icebergs just came along and they were like oh they're breaking the Earth um but they would at the minute then three even if they crack on with this project and they can then have like interoperable trades we call it between the three of them the currency FX between them but then what happens when you know Spain want to join and then Japan want to join in and then you know Dairy they're all gonna have to abide by the rules these three have created to start with or they're gonna have to all go to something that's like Bitcoin lightning and it's decentralized and they don't there's no obeying a particular country I don't think you're ever going to get every country in the world to obey and work on the one protocol that is directly controlled by now would be these three people yeah these three countries it is like a country version of the R3 thing from years ago yeah yeah I just said just use Bitcoin and just use lightning something that's already there not controlled by anybody who's open can go and contribute you want to change the code to something particularly you can go and contribute and request it and things so um it's they're all available and they appreciate that they all thinking the control aspects for a large portion of this I think yeah I think that definitely must be some Bitcoin is working in there although definitely know about the alignment network to use that terminology and even they have they have some rooting thing where it can go through several hops if you do you're not directly connected to the end currency you can go to sort of say I want to go from Sweden to Israel I can go through Norway convert to their local currency and they'll convert for me yeah so it can go on like a kind of lining Network hop which could have just you could have just used a lighter Network this is something like yeah we're like say between um we haven't really particularly got any of them countries have we but like we would do that from UK to Kenya for example or you can go through from and actually you can go from the UK to uh Philippines but you you can go from the UK via coin Corner say to Philippines via pouch but actually you could go by bit not because bit number also need to go into pouch aren't they now so yeah so you could actually go from coincon and UK person wanting to send to the Philippines battery goes via uh bit knob and then from bitnub over to pouch in the Philippines um which is effectively saying yeah it's kind of interoperable in that way not technically you know what it is CBD where they take the mask off and it's just like the lightning Network behind the behind it oh it's like the I've made this so yeah that's what they're doing yeah they can actually just when I'm saying just use lightning that they could actually just use lighting and have private nodes between the three countries yeah so they can only interact and only have liquidity and only access each other's so they would know exactly the source and all the funds and everything around it because they are just connected to each other and they're not connected to the outside the lightning world so it'd be like its own little private lightning Network maybe that's what we do maybe that is what they're doing um I'd be enough to still use Bitcoin to do that on the network obviously um by the this is where I'm saying like I'm the the Swedish side they need to flip out to uh the Swedish club right okay um they would flip out of that via a Bitcoin exchange where this is able to sell the Bitcoin so it would just come in and that's your fx-ray um but yeah they can easily do that or using their own thing rather than the lighting Network yeah crazy stuff okay I'll just take it as they've taken inspiration yeah it's not a bad thing right yeah it's just a it's so sweet it could be better no way no way I've copied this project like our bad name yeah the same little books yeah we should Rebrand but let's call it Icebreaker thank you [Music] moving on individual behind three billion dollar Silk Road Bitcoin theft sentence to one year in prison yeah the only point I have on this is one year seems incredibly tame for three billion dollars yeah for a crime you concealed for 10 years and Russell has got two life sentences oh yeah that's gonna cause some controversy yeah it's one year and one day a month like to be precise so you know he's only found it under his bed on a popcorn too and his Hardware wallet was it under his but it was it was under the floorboards yeah yeah yeah um that's a pretty cool how did what I can't remember the backstory of who he was and how he he stole up I can't remember either yeah it wasn't the guy that found the book on there was he and he was like withdrawing exploited maybe it was either thinking so it's been 10 years though do you think he's these last 10 years in life yeah well he hasn't a lot to give mutants oh yeah every single day I assume he was really leaving it long enough to in the future maybe at the point when you could then um obscure your transactions and bet with the better privacy maybe he was thinking I'll wait off until this bad privacy I'm sharing and I can do something um or maybe it was just keeping it for but what happens if you they were stolen funds and you died and then your next of kin inherited them what would happen those still get taken off and they wouldn't get done for the crime I get taken off I would think I've taken often it depends on the horizon jurisdiction I guess or what laws they are maybe that's you know another consideration he was gonna save him and frame his kid no no not frames if people get done for it but these kids get left these things and it's good to be like oh yeah that was the airport that was my my dad was 3.4 billion oh no it's not but I don't know yeah how would they how would that work if you want to live in a different country that didn't have potentially rules around that that might be an interesting one inherit it into a child's name and a country jurisdiction that wouldn't have anything against him in heaven there's one to figure out yeah it wasn't some IP address things after like 10 years for 10 years after a couple years foreign counts and then he made an initial deposit of between 200 and 2000 Bitcoin on them and then using a lag in the markets transaction system which allowed someone to withdraw their own escrow multiple times to triggered a rapid series of transactions that allowed to transfer approximately 50 000 Bitcoins and still growth into his own accounts that sounds a little more technical then you just double click the widgets that sounds way more comfortable here let me just double click it like someone said it was the same Expo wasn't it it's their similar exploit to that um so yeah okay um so yeah I would like to I know that is then because it falls under we know in the UK there's a law with that where if a bank ATM for example you go and press right we draw 100 quid and it gives you 200 quid you don't keep that money in an hour of the bank you actually legally have to give that back to the bank there's a law that sits around that person says um it's not like a finder's Keeper's style so I think it's more of a um the bank will ask for it back at some point when you if you don't hand it back then that's illegal you have to there's loads of those stories I woke up with two million yeah I can and went out spending yeah yeah shouldn't come up here um by the end with I wonder if there's if that's where that's scenario what's happened to him there is basically that isn't it or he's click to button yeah multiple times don't be wrong with them knowingly or unknowingly some people will do it unknowingly and then we double the amount of Bitcoin in their balance now silk girl doesn't exist and actually there's a criminal Enterprise anyway how how does that sitting there as a law in some countries that wouldn't have that particular law around it would find his Finders Keepers yeah than you expect yeah although he clearly knew how to explain it and did that because to get three billion dollars although yeah I'm trying to figure out that's the details like back then a thousand Bitcoins weren't worth that much because this would have been it was 2010 11. so this says he I'm awfully obtained over 50 676 Bitcoin at the time it was seized the Bitcoin was worth more than three billion I don't know that's the time it seems not the time he stole it so absolutely recently yeah which 2012 depending on what time Penny not slow yeah it could have been under a dollar at one point I think 2012 showing the average price was 5.28 so yeah five dollars so it's 250 Grand 250 000 um which isn't it's a lot on their own but it's also not a lot when you think of it and he's now worth three billion if I pay he's been sadly over the last 10 years directly commit the crime it was quarter million dollars it wasn't as big as expect now yeah maybe that's why only about a year and one day yeah kind of makes some sort of sense hello wish him all the best same in a year what's happened to them fund's been seized now with the US probably again auctioned off at some point they've been flogging all that poor down there it's all part of the auction the silences doesn't say what's going to be done with the Bitcoin on this particular article okay they tend to auction the monster anyway so yeah uh cool uh last one I'm sorry we're not to them what how does the price works so you could pay well in the market for today why so why would you ever want to explain why would you just not going by from generally I imagine the market market rate right so it's like a large OTC buy that doesn't affects yeah so if you were to buy 50 000 Bitcoins yeah you would move the market quite heavily unless you do it all off market so this will be a way to do it without moving the market too much some people would want to not move the market and get in and then wait for the market to move if they start acquiring now maybe 50 000 Bitcoins they might only end up with if they did it on Market they might only end up with like 40 000 because the prices come up with their initial pass so even buying at a slight premium would still be beneficial yeah minimum like someone like me can't just go and buy 10 10 clicks there for Bitcoin can you find a market I know you have to go and buy the whole thing oh okay generally they'll do it in like they might have a lot of times something like ten thousand at times yeah it's big batteries okay okay as you get senior Goods together a lot of people get syndicates to go and buy them that's what Watson's wasted for the original Silk Road was it the original Silk Road ones um [Music] um but they did that with Syndicate and a lot of like all came together uh Barry Silver was it Barry silbert oh okay a Genesis guy yeah it says Tim Draper one part of the auction I think he did and then Barry Silver is management as well yeah we won 48 000. Draper got 29 000. yeah so if I think it's simply get them all come together to buy the junk from what I remember oh yeah yeah so uh paternal capital and investment fund founded by Dan Moorhead said this newsletter is also participating in his formula Syndicate for the auction yeah the normal one in so yeah Tim Drake we've got something he got some barriers I'm sure there'll be earlier Syndicate out there but we can probably come join them it sounds like a lot of efforts a little busy at the moment uh right what's quickly move um representative Davidson to introduce legislation to fire SEC boss Gensler for crypto overreach um he's fine multiplayer Gary sweet Gary again yes um he so he's he's proposing it was just one tweet was it I don't I'm not seeing any further detail on the Tweet but it was meant to be that he's trying to bring in legislation to uh change the structure of the um SEC chairman role so they call us a it moves it to one that reports to the board is it yeah it would be a legislation that removes the chairman of the security is an Exchange Commission and replaces the role with an executive director that reports to the board and where Authority resides former shares of the SEC are ineligible which would mean that's why it's saying in the headline they can fight it is doing it to fire him he's doing it if that came in then they wouldn't be allowed to apply for that yeah which in theory would quite like a job yeah so it's not firing him as such he's just trying to change the structure of how the department works um I had no idea how that is even going to go through Asian is going to get lots of votes from other Senators is it and whatever it is in the US there I'm not sure it's yeah a little bit a little bit crazy but I think because Gary Denzel was um he was in court was he uh was that last week that yeah he was being questioned wasn't he over his overreach on crypto and how that's all going um so I think this on top of it these are all starting to come out and kick in a little bit more um so I imagine if he's getting pressure from all different places like this it will help ease the crypto overreach in the US save our overreaches that's this is very opinionated isn't it yes he won't believe it's another reach but other people will yeah yeah not much more sound like just a follow-on I guess from the date on Gary we should uh every week yeah we concur news we've got a new Merchant on board oh [Laughter] great let me know maybe next week let's go all right okay well that's it guys it was fun if you have any questions this week uh no because you [ __ ] the one down last week but I said as well we need to communicate before the patterns seems slavidsons like yeah people liked my um tweet that I tweet out the other week showing that we use a Bitcoin miner to weigh down our stands when we record there we really do run a lean business model here yeah yeah no professional sounds just all Bitcoin miners so do we not have any questions about nothing cool I came in prepared and you should be down so no news no questions nope can we then for next week get more questions can we have like a little I can tweet out I can't force people to ask quick yeah like five weeks ago I think they're quiet let's go ahead question questions out to customers around people um please guys my job's on the line here yeah man uh cool I think that's it no questions no Dave it's been lovely and peaceful isn't it we get through with our day we all talk about anything personal without they doing no we didn't care about personal [ __ ] well it's Dave and it's all he talks about is his dog and his skin haircuts yeah it's hardcore he's still not wore a suit into the office for everybody listen yeah he said he's gonna he's still not Aussie no no foreign out