02/07/2024

Is Dell Buying Bitcoin? | Britcoiners by CoinCorner #132

Join Danny, Molly, Zakk and Dave for industry-led opinions on important Bitcoin stories from the week. This week's topics: Bitcoin price, German Government moving Bitcoin, ETF Outflows, MtGox repayments to start in July, Interest rates, MicroStrategy bought more Bitcoin, Winklevoss Bitcoin donation to Trump, Trump rumoured to be attending Bitcoin 2024, Dell CEO tweets about scarcity, Argentina has first week without inflation in over 30 years, Mutiny Wallet experiences issues with Fediment, Bitcoin News by CoinCorner and a Dear Dave. Britcoiners is a Bitcoin podcast by CoinCorner (https://www.coincorner.com) - a global leader in Bitcoin and Lightning services. Join our Telegram: https://t.me/britcoiners Follow Britcoiners on X: https://x.com/britcoiners Follow CoinCorner on X: https://x.com/coincorner #coincorner #britcoiners #bitcoin #bitcoinpodcast #bitcoinnews

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Transcript

if you want a, sat BET right now I'm willing I'm willing to make one that you won't be there I'll bet you £1,000 no in Bitcoin no [Music] okay welcome back guys brico brico is to be here sh Bitcoin is episode 132 um agenda this week we got a couple of news points on interest rates uh Swiss bank and Bank of England we got micro strategy news uh Winkle Voss donating Bitcoin uh dell getting involved in Bitcoin potentially Trump may be speaking at Bitcoin 2024 um either confirm or deny that yet uh Argentina first week without inflation in 30 years uh Mutiny wallet M Mount GX news some dear Daves and our new bitcoin news by coin Corner classic seg on what bitcoin news bin Corner not segment but update uh first point though price 61 500ish nearly what did it go down to since the last pod crippling lows smash bought that dip by the way oh do you know Co market cap you can't see the full dips cuz they only record the price every like 30 seconds or whatever is so oh was more crash within 15 minutes yeah I think I don't know if it went to like 57 something on some exchanges similar to the other week where we went to like 57 and a halfish I think it was like might been just over 8ish reason any reason yeah M what um one of the talking points is it more people were selling than buying simple simple reasons um is a talking point isn't it I guess but we do want to segue into that or is there anything else let's go straight into it straight into it what did you think the reason for the dip was Scott last week we had government who've got I think it's like $3 billion worth of bitcoin or $2 billion whatever they've got uh they've sold they so this is one of the difficulties we haven't got this one ticked and no wonder I didn't know what you're on about carry on okay well is what it is now we' on just interrupted him we haven't got it ticked stop right there get it ticked for someone who sticks to the agenda yeah so a little bit we'll do a little bit of sweeping there's a lot of sweeping here to do actually this with this last week's lacking sweeping from people so we're going to bring sweeping the roads are dusty Here Comes our hero with a brush here we go um for my secret Santa this year when we do Secret Santa someone get me a sweeping brush in get your high Vis High Vis and a sweeping brush I wear Road sweep when we do the segment I'll put it on do that um so people are saying okay Germany's got this Bitcoin to sell they've been selling up to $500 million it's looking like it's increased about $600 million now total we don't necessarily know that they sold at what times they sent people are just tracking onchain data so they're just seeing that the Bitcoin is leaving the German wallet and moving into an exchange like I think was it yeah they' got coinbase bit stamp Kraken I think Kraken was the one that was mostly been used I think um so you seeing that going into these wallets we assume that they've then sold them at that point which is forced the price down which would make some sense um but we don't know that for definite so there's there's a lot people I think Traders are effectively speculating a lot of this where they're using this as speculation which is great for them because it means there's volatility and this means there's profit to be made on movements so they want this they drum up this drama um of what that is um for all we know the government might not have actually sold any Bitcoin yet it might just be sat there in Kraken account or coinbase account or whatever it is um and they still have to sell it but this comes up people panic sell because they're trying to or Panic sell or try and trade against it and the Traders are going to expect that people are going to panic sell so they sell and or short it or what you know how long Germany have been holding I was going to say I didn't know why why wonder the why what the trigger point is seized Bitcoin so it's probably court cases finalized in some ways historically built up over time I think it's just one big seiz it's it's yeah it's from the um it was a bit of a controversial one I think as well of What They seized a recent seizure uh it was it last year oh okay last year um so the there's a part of it there there's that's one one thing of the government if the government were selling it was downward pressure sells which makes sense it makes sense why the price would come down we then have um the ETFs the ETF outflows have been close to 6 700 million I think $ 700 million over the last seven seven days of uh open days of trading um which obviously you've there got 1.5 billion total over the last week that have effectively been on Cell side and forcing the pressure down however again with ETFs you don't fully know if they're actually selling that Bitcoin at that time cuz theoretically now have 30 days to settle so again we just don't know what that looks like behind the scenes the only people that know that are the ones that are set at Black Rock actually doing the trades or sat at coinbase OTC desk doing the trades for Black Rock and clearly none of them are coming out and saying oh yeah we've sold or anything cuz that's going to be do they have do the buys as well I think they have 30 days to to settle the the the the difference so they might not even have to do any M so if one day they get 100 million next day they have 100 million sells it evens itself out did they even need to buy anything did they just not make money on the trades throughout that whole process and and happy days so there's um there's a couple of different things there but at the surface there's a $600 million sale from Germany there's a $700 million sale from the ETFs um and then coming into Monday morning we got the news of was it Monday morning Sunday night Monday morning of the mount gox repayments so the mount go um have now said they're going to start begin in July uh repaying the Bitcoin to people that lost it during the mount lock hack 140,000 Bitcoin that's about $8 billion or something now um however again people then Traders again see that short the market sell try and make money so that's again a lot of people will then Panic sale because of that news and the price comes down even more that was the the force of the dip so as soon as that news came out the price started to dip and that's when it dipped into the sort of uh under 60k so with the mount gox thing people are are assuming that the people that are getting paid out by M Cox are just going to sell it straight away yes because given the time period Well if you think about it logically you've gone from a position where people can't sell yeah and to a position where they now can hold up or they can sell yeah so you it's going to be down with pressure surely a little bit no why not so this is the sweeping hello here he come I need the hello ruin that bit of cool now it's just completely your transition's going to be way better than Dave don't worry nice thank you thanks can't be how with the hell try make that if you can have the sweeping brush in that at the same time covers the screen just try and do all as bad as possible I was thinking of like uh the Ricky dvas podcast where they do that with um thingy when they always pull him up on things what's he called I think Davis Carill lington sides like I'm Ste Merchant anything cuz I got size size maybe maybe we don't have a carington yeah um I'm definitely not funny so I'm not Rick of anything oh um sweep away then so yes theoretically yeah there there's a potential for downward pressure there of Bitcoin going back into people's hands and they're going to be potentially selling however people if they needed to sell over the last sort of six or seven years whatever it's been since it's been going through they've been able to sell to companies that have set themselves up to be like the um the Bitcoin will get returned to these these guys will return the funds back to all the the the creditors effectively but these guys have been allowed to the end customers has been allowed to sell to these companies their Bitcoin Shar bit actual Bitcoin no no they've been able to sell their share to these companies who have basically took on the risk of that will that Bitcoin will they get that Bitcoin Back in X amount of years time which is like some of them have sold it like five years ago but it's also proportional right so they've sold well they sold it at a discounted rate to these guys as well however on some of the things we don't know is this company that there's lots of these compan I'm saying these companies I don't actually know what they are don't if they're they're a fund or they just a law firms that have been set up to do this I'm not sure what structure they sell up in exactly um but they um they for example have sold or bought the share of some end customers 100 Grand worth of bitcoin for 80 grand or whatever the discount they've given at um they've took that risk then that they're going to get 100 Grand worth of this Bitcoin back in some years time and what's the Bitcoin price going to be so very well have they hedged it so have they already hedged it got a short position against the Bitcoin price in case it goes down MH if it goes up then they've got the other side of it there so when they actually claim this Bitcoin even if this company says okay once we got this Bitcoin m in let's just sell it and recuperate it they might not technically need to because they've got a short position that' have to close which would then counteract the the the sell of the Bitcoin if that makes sense so you might end up in a position because they've got to buy the Bitcoin back yeah but the price going down would suggest that they haven't got the price going down is people no one's received anything yet no one started selling yet the price is speculation it's Traders trading on Panic selling this basically the foot of this has created people panic selling which has created the downward pressure of the price all right if there was no Market impact you think that there'd be pretty much equilibrium between those two positions there's lots of moving Parts there so there's there's a couple of there's a good breakdown uh Galaxy digital had a research Galaxy digital did a nice little breakdown on Twitter I didn't really look at it properly but it was a quick breakdown of the companies and people that are roaded so there's like one company that's actually in bankruptcy at the minute which is like 15,000 of these Bitcoins of 140 whatever the number was um so there there's they're all getting sold well they don't if they've already been again has it been some sort of we don't know in the background without being similar to what saying about with the black rock and the coinbase unless you're the person doing these things you technically don't really know everyone's guessing nobody knows um you've also got we know a lot of people that have got the mountain gots claims and them claims I know a lot of people have sold them claims already and have took how many pen on the dollar for for the return early if they haven't taken that early claim and they've held out all this time they've held out for over 10 years for this to be returned back to them just waiting to sell do they need do they need they clearly don't need the money because they' have sold their claim already they already sold their claim M assumptions no they just want want you didn't want they didn't want the the discounted rate yeah but it's not that much Fai they get it's not that much of a disc I think some would be huge depending on the time I think only like 10 15% I think from I found this one this is from 2019 investor Fortress will buy man gox creditor claims for 900 per Bitcoin but what was the price at that time find out what 2019 price was I guess would have been about 3K might have been about 3 or 4K maybe yeah so it could have been a 75% discount was between 6 and 3K yeaha around 3K um so there's a combination of lots of different things that's another scenario where where I don't believe a lot of these people that are bitcoiners been around the industry for over 10 years now clearly cuz they had Mount gow stuff they've not sold early their claim because they didn't need it so they get this Bitcoin return now at the beginning of a what what they would understand is beginning of the bull cycle for the four years hype cycle why would they sell now it's a good for the return just well cuz your assumption is that they didn't didn't need money at the time yeah they some of them will need money of% will be selling some of them will but not when you start breaking this down that 8 billion dollars you might be you know a billion coming onto the market might be a high end shot we none of us really know and this that's me just making numbers up but it's not like everybody's all of a sudden just going to dump on the market and the price is going like that's just not going to happen they also have said they're going to begin in July they've been saying this for years by the way they're going to begin Distributing it for years but they haven't so we still don't know if they're going to begin in July if they begin in July doesn't mean to say on July the 1st everybody gets their Bitcoin back this is a you've got to do Bitcoin transactions you've got to send them out manually to all these different people it's going to take time they're Distributing out to the the uh some of the entities which then may distribute out to other people there's there's a a chain of things that happen here it's not going to it could take six months to distribute that 8 billion outs people it's not going to happen in a week so we again nobody knows this at the minute it but logically knowing I can see why that news caused it a bit of a dip though yeah it's Panic selling and Traders speculating to make money but it's not real sentiment okay right well real sentiment is a funny term to use food sentiment I would say okay it's it's a sentiment that is driven driven it's sentiment sentiment driven by Fun underlying fundamentals is the way think about that it's sentiment driven by Panic headlines not by something F think it's worth panicking over no not at all okay I mean that's fair enough I mean if I was offered shars in so as part of so I had one Bitcoin mhm back in the day and I was offered a you know a share in it in terms of my my Mount Go's piece for 900 would I have sold it to them I probably wouldn't have I no I think you think you may be thinking about maybe doing the maths wrong on that as well because I think um an accountant doing a Dave's not an accountant Dave pretends to be an accountant I've got a team that do it tell them um because back then in 2019 at that price they didn't have enough to pay everybody back because the price has gone up so much they now have enough to pay people back but they're only paying them back at the dollar value in Bitcoin okay does that Mak sense so they're paying them back at a price I can't remember what the price is a set price from so say if they had 100 Grand worth of bitcoin back then they're getting 100 Grand now of Bitcoin they're not getting 100 Grand worth of the Bitcoin back then that's now worth 10 million they're getting 100 Grand back are are you sure I thought they were just getting the their actual bit so they're not getting the I had one Bitcoin I'm not getting my one Bitcoin I can't remember don't hold me remember the calculation of what the calculation works out in the end because because the Bitcoin pric sweeper is McKing his own road now isn't he he's he's sweeping it over with one one bucket and tipping out behind him I'll explain because over the years the Bitcoin price has been moving and changing they've I think in my head they've actually changed the structure of how because originally they couldn't pay everybody out 100% now they can pay everyone out 100% And I think Mark capella is left with like a couple of billion dollars which doesn't make any sense so it's like it's a bit of a weird I wasn't doing impress you just everyone's just getting whatever Bitcoin they had was just getting it sent back to them no cuz they lost 800,000 Bitcoin and there's only 140,000 of them right that does make they only back 140,000 of 800,000 Bitcoins so you're only getting that percentage back okay right but it's still if you had 100 Grand you're getting your 100 Grand back F I think or you're getting something is this from they said they found 200,000 forgotten Bitcoins at some point as well which was added on to 140,000 I don't know what have happened with that no cuz they're only paying back 140,000 Bitcoins to people they just found it like n is I'm I'm going to question the reconciliation process if they just oh oh I remember that coming up in the news but I can't remember so that might be the remainder that he's gets to keep in theory because they've given him back at a dollar value they've give they're giving everybody back the dollar value so theoretically nobody's lost money they've all got they've no lost dollar I'd quite like people to comment below if the sweepers got this all wrong he's then left with something left over I knew he was going to be left with something left over and he was then trying to say he was going to give that all back to people he didn't want any of it cuz he came out saying he didn't want any of it but that was like he can't really come out saying that he he's going to keep it all can he this no this was like I can see why people back in the day then in 2019 were sold their shirts it was it looked more it looked you know like you weren't getting anything back so you're just like okay I'd tell it it was so now you're just a bit annoyed yeah I know quite a few people that have sold their CL and it was just cuz at the time they're just just it was easiest to get the money now move on and honestly if some some of them probably if they sold their claim even at that time when it was $3,000 took that and bought Bitcoin they're probably better off now than they would have been waiting so you know there's there's a few moving Parts there that you can't but if someone was offing to buy the claim I would automatically be suspicious that it's that means it's more likely that I'm going to be able to get paid for my claim well they're taking a court yeah because if they willing to take that risk they were all confid yeah they were theoretically confident they were going to get paid out they just didn't know how long it was going to take so it was like is it you could be waiting another five years which they have done some of these guys that's six years ago five years ago sorry from one with the 2019 we looked at so you know they've had to at that point they didn't know that it was going to be another five years as well it could have been five it could have been 10 it could have been what conundrum to be put under to with your claim whether they sell or not i' be quite interested to speak to someone on but we know some as well that have not sold their claim and we'll get the Bitcoin back so when they're not looking to sell so I think knowing a few different people in a few different scenarios yeah and some that have sold already some that sold back in like 2020 I think some of them um so but yeah they did it for different reasons and I am unsure and I that makes me wonder them the the people that they've sold their claim to surely them guys have been shorting something and hedging something there because otherwise they're just taking massive risk of a bitcoin price and the recovery of them have you seen more Mount socks traffic since this is what that was named have not looked but maybe maybe now MX is back on the scene I think no did you mean M so most yeah exactly most people wouldn't know that that's what that's named after I suppose no you think it's a cool name on its own it's a great name isn't it m that was the price done it's a hell of a complicated topic anyway but yeah it's just it's it's delayed data that is so give really delayed man in the past day that's why obviously sold Molly one there delayed data guys delayed we get it okay cool right so that's the price done is it that's that's the opening segment done um I've got to go now okay uh news around interest rates this week so we had Swiss Central Bank uh cutting interest rates for the second time this year and we also had Bank of England maintaining interest rates mhm yeah America maintained as well didn't they but everyone's looking for the cuts now so the they were forecasted for cuts into 2024 I think that's down to two Now in America everyone will follow their lead uh I've seen forecasted only one CT this year I I would say there'll be two I've seen forecasted one okay and I guess we'll see what happens guys you can't really resolve this right now I'll share that thing that I share with you okay you like to ignore I don't ignore everything you said to me do oh yog that does not back me up does it God damn it one C this year yeah I was actually going off well there was some news about with the um what you call it the Futures so fed saying one I'm saying two to be fair you could be right things can change so inflation's now being deemed as being under control what what what was inflation in the US did we get a number on that recently uh they did release I can't UK's definitely come down isn't it UK did because UK has been solved by rishy yeah um America's was coming down as well pretty sure because it would have been big news video going pop back up yeah okay so all is well in the world rest the story the story they're selling done about that just in time for all the elections all these problems are being solved yeah it's amazing isn't it yeah CPI numbers are all just magically coming down yeah so all is good all is good mhm um micro strategy they acquired additional 11,931 Bitcoins for 700 around 786 million what was his what price did he get 6 65 65 83 is that his average that was that what we bought more was the average for this by he could have done better couldn't average total is 3 36 absolutely kicking himself I had I had to look at my average buer Bitcoin after where you at uh it's slightly skewed cuz I'm missing a couple of transactions from early early years but it was why are you missing them I don't know I exported them and I'm missing 21 transactions between 200 finding bugs live on the Pod yeah I messaged you that you just ignored me I didn't even see that not going to lie I did not see that h my average purchase price is a lot lower than sailor nice oh y have that I'm still I'm still missing 20 transactions between 200 did I 2014 and 2018 I think it is well that drag it down even more then yeah boom yeah I honestly I did used to care about what my average price was but then it just became about how much Bitcoin I have it's helped yeah I think I focus on the Bitcoin amount as opposed to the as much Bitcoin as possible not bothered about average price the average price is a pretty cool number I used to keep it try and keep it under at one point it was under 10 for a long time well and then it's only going to go up I know that's the problem that's what I realized I I can't what am I doing the only way to keep this under 10 would be to stop buying Bitcoin and I was like this pointless so I want as much Bitcoin as possible so I get the average pricey bits but it's all about the underlying number isn't it yeah and Michael sa has quite a few Michael he clearly doesn't care about the average price the only thing that this he's just missed a dip he did that's the point yeah you should just tweet him that I got the dip you you missed it pal yeah what a loser what you hit 57 did you not quite but I got under 60 that's all right I know I know it's all right I was celebr I was giv one of them f um yep he's still buying yep still buying of course he is can't stop won't stop mhm uh next story The Winkle twins donated 3.94 Bitcoins which was around 2 million why do we care about this one who tied this uh is not already been sent back follow story so Trump's got a Max donation limit for any one individual so a great deal of their money got refunded it didn't say whether they got their Bitcoin back or they just got the like a dollar value back maybe Trump could have kept the Bitcoin and just give them dollars back M he's all in on Bitcoin now is he so well it's like people picking siid on the like they see Biden's war on crypto is what I think well that's what they they quot it was to put an end to Biden's the Biden adan's war on crypto which he's playing on and that's why he's probably going to be at Bitcoin he's not he ain't going to be there he's I would bet you it's not confirmed is it but I would bet you a thousand SATs he's not going to be there so who else was who else was with him again the other day with trump it was I don't the Bitcoin magazine guys were with him for the with the some of the mining guys and did the whole mining thing with him all right so they were there with him and vivec yeah but right now he's in he's in election mode he'll be visiting every Factory he can possibly get an an invite to he will and he'll visit every conference he can get an invite to is that part of one of your three prong strategies 25,000 people there that he knows if you want a thousand sat BET right now I'm willing I'm willing to make one that he won't be there about you a, pounds no in Bitcoin no okay how much is a th000 SATs 50 [Laughter] scar enough but it's expected over 20,000 people will be there of a a perfect location right okay but if you were Bitcoin magazine and you're trying to sell tickets to your conference and you could confirm Trump was going you'd confirm Trump was going to sell tickets maybe they can't confirm it though he's a busy man with a schedule I guess if they can could he can drop in he might busy busy man with a schedule then you need to schedule it you can't it can't be I think if he's got half an hour after a round of golf he might pop in where he is it does depend where he is in in the you could probably look at you could probably look at his tour schedule right now and realize that he's nowhere near Nashville probably track his private jet and who is that a true actually the distance doesn't matter does it was vivec in was he at last year's conference don't know who I think he was was he in Miami and he obviously is is now supporting Trump and everything you might get so there's definite um synergies here of things of what's happening in the background there and you saw David might get the deputy there look V speaking at this year's one oh he already is there we go there you go sott k that's why are we Amazed by that independ he's going to be a voice call surely yeah we' done that before before though they have yeah but he's going to be like Kennedy's an independent running for president I mean anyone could do that with enough money no but it's the name of who he is that I'm talking about has loads of kennedies trump needs to be there to help solidify his crypto push I don't think he does I don't think he does and he won't be imagine him tur up the news will go nuts on bitcoin twit would be amazed by it sure and that's what Trump needs and wants he wants the attention do we do want Trump I'm not saying I do I'm just saying that I think that's he's going to turn up I'm not sure I want Trump or Biden to beon exactly the Lesser two evils I know it's getting politicized really isn't it Bitcoin potentially make a bit more money off Trump so B him and that's whatever A lot of people are thinking exactly that but if there was a popular massive ethereum con conference he'd also be get of that his loyalty is not with Bitcoin oh God I'm not saying it is so I think people chill outly he has been separating off though his when he's doing his talks he's saying Bitcoin and crypto sounds like he's been prepped by he's been prepped by well vivex Bing laser eyes yeah but not forit were for something else that wasn't Bitcoin he didn't want Biden was it Bitcoin it was nothing to do with Bitcoin accient inst an app on his phone know what he was doing on it it's laser eyes when it wants to be right um so yeah it would make sense it's end end of next month well would you be what would you say if sunuk was there say he lost what no because well if he doesn't become Prime Minister he'll be thank you fixing the economy he'll go into business like Blair make more money there they will yeah ties with America they all get jobs yeah he probably will lobbying groups or might very well be did coinbase not employ Nick CLE yeah think yeah well think he had bance had uh his brother as well had Cam's brother FTX I mean they had Tony Blair and Clinton yeah oh at their conference in the Bahamas it's all just bance side George Osborne that the coinbase hired oh yeahor so he was former was he Chancellor the ex so while Cameron was in power his brother binance I think had as a non exec on the UK company but then they got kicked out of the UK and he came off all that and quickly brushed under the RO so it's just it's the network isn't it I suppose it's political plays it's yeah just I we kind of do need it partly because of bitcoin's mainstreams like it it needs someone have to lobbying for it you do and it's I don't like it no I don't it leaves a bad taste in my mouth because you know it's just a nky world even business has becomes politics even though it's not politics there's the business politics side of things just ch it's who you know a lot of the time and the connection I like the way we like we just keep doing what we doing and we don't have to play that game well we you know we every business does to an extent it's always who you know and things like that it's becomes your network and then they you know them they know you so they come to you to buy Bitcoin need to so it's or your whatever they need the smoing just for people's reputation in networks is what I despise like if if you if if we did our job well enough they'd be trying to suck up to us wouldn't they if the service and yeah everything's good enough then and we know that from a lot of clients that we talk to and they if you're powerful enough you can politicize your user base essentially think how Apple how powerful apple is if they choose a political side and basically they had lobbying groups on where their Factory should be based yeah amount of Apple users well apple and you can decide to run whichever ads but then you get into all sorts of Facebook Monopoly stuff yeah that's what Facebook did yeah well Facebook chose aside and did that exact thing and they for it murd fam for it you know the sun is the most popular newspaper in the UK and he he's literally conservative and it's all Pro conservative negative lab yeah propaganda for the side but people don't really realize that people are doing that and think that's the news so people have to be careful be skeptical of everything don't believe anyone yeah don't that's my don't trust my Mantra these days yeah CE yeah yeah don't trust me you should never trust me you should check the road do Road sweep exactly check how dirty that road use a dirty brush didn't use clean yeah anyway but yeah you need to look I think everyone knows that don't they everyone's as skeptical as I am everyone does but I think a lot I always say the people are lazy mentality thing isn't as well people people are lazy people are busy I think is a combination and you don't have time to go and research that and figure that out and do that so you end up trusting either certain people around you that you trust their opinion um or people just trust the media um anyway don't think that'll ever change that route no all right um CEO of Dell Michael Dell uh tweeted scarcity creates value what do you think of Michael Dell he surely is your boy you must like Michael Dell I do like Dell's um even the way he started his business Dell founder of business started in Prett much garage you've read a Dell book have you I know about Dell if you if you read people that start stuff from scratch you learn a lot from him people could probably learn a lot from Michael Dell he's a longevity guy I work with Danny every day I don't too you need to read down yeah you probably do uh he's a longevity guy in terms of like running a business over a long term period and that's his he's another one of those little started making money at University dropped out of University started using data for his benefit and then realized that computer people that made computers could sell them directly much D 37 years old is it something like that 378 years the80s yeah um and he was he actually left the company or didn't he owns more than he bought it back privately 40 years old 40 years old is it now you that by the way that makes me feel old you start seeing that 984 is 40 years old yeah um but he yeah he he sold the company I can't when that was now and then they it listed he's bought it all back yeah privately so now private what's he own now 60% of it something like that H your majority shareholder no doubt well it started to go downhill didn't they out they ended up moving the manufacturing us be isand and they moved it to India I think it was it right and the quality went down and then I think that must have been after the quality dip and the Dells he then bought that back I think he's done well from it I think he's one of the richest guys in America he's one of the richest guys in the world I think one of the richest guys in the universe well technically correct yeah right anyway do we think he Bitcoin for ages isn't he he not tweeted about it for ages Dell used to accept Bitcoin didn't yeah someone spent like 84 Bitcoin on some sort of server Rack or something like that pretty heartbreaking to see $1 billion is he worth jesz I mean these net worth calculations are you take true strange although the more wealthy they are the more accurate they seem to be normally yeah that's true um so yeah he is um incredibly wealthy Dell used to accept Bitcoin so yes they've been in 10 years ago was it it was a long time ago it was yeah um I can't remember if I ever bought anything from them with Bitcoin where did they like how did they facilitate that because 10 years ago that's bitay I think it's bitay okay yeah July 2014 and then they stopped they just I think they quietly as a lot did they just quietly took it off over time for a lot of it was through the scaling issues of this 16 17 period it was crumbled and Dell's blog from 2014 there you go update in 2017 that's when they must have taken it out yeah so yeah so so they started in 2014 took it off by 2017 okay it wasn't bit pay it was coinbase was it com yeah was it um so what what does this tweet mean do you think it's about Bitcoin do you think they add Twitter is just jumping all over sorry just coming back to that they added it at bull market went through bare market and demand dropped and then took it off during the bare Market just as bull market was about to again which is what you see every time we've seen this every cycle companies adding it at bull market cuz we see this ourselves they come want to accept Bitcoin cuz price is going uput everyone wants to buy Bitcoin and then a year or two into bare Market they're like oh I'm not getting orders I'm just going to turn it off and they forget about it then bull market kicks in again and they they wake up again um it's weird that they even turn it off it's a sort of thing you can just leave kicking over in the background really isn't it it's again it's over like overhead and things like so administrative things like if he's an accountant he'll moan and not you can never really that goes with anything you can't really like any bank accounts you're not using there still there's still processes involved looking at them so so they'll look at it and say what are we making from it is it worth the admin and overhead to deal with that and imagine a big company like them they have a bit of a big slow processes um which would cater and end up being expensive to but a lot lot easier now than 10 years ago well if they just had a wallet on that thing yeah yeah but then even though 10 years ago you can get a set accounting software anywhere near yeah eight 8 decimals and revaluations become annoying and then you know your accounts become less accurate but now I think it's way easier that's why more people are doing it but do you think that tweet relates to bitcoin 100% 100% 100% on what on What basis could be talking about gold he replies afterwards with a couple of different tweets if he then goes this is about Bitcoin then Bitcoin so so Michael sailor put Bitcoin is digital scarcity and Michael Dell retweeted that oh and then afterwards he did the Cookie Monster with the Bitcoin image TW a poll which which technology will be the biggest Shaker up and it was like AI blockchain something else blockchain it did say blockchain say blockchain I think he put that up before this tweet as well I think he put the P up first then it was this then it was the retweet of sailors then it was the moner Cookie Monster so it's like you you know it's I mean it's EXE is that just a normal Cookie Monster account is retweet I don't know I'm not sure I clicked on it I thought it was just the regular it's it's not a Bitcoin specific cookie you saying Sesame St into Bitcoin as well yeah PA on the 21st well that's big you scroll up if Sesame stet into click on click on that link that's just it takes you to the regular cookie monser page I think it is yeah but I don't know who's done that image and why the image just linked he's just linked rual account the image is not oh yeah it's just just an image yeah okay why don't people just be more clear when they're tweeting just this is bit is D private company now still yeah so he can tweet stuff and so so they might have Bitcoin then we just don't know it says here it's a public I mean Dell is a Subs subsidiary of Dell technology so maybe it definitely was take definitely bought it back private no yeah 2016 it's on 14e 500 says so he's got something listed so it is listed still so we would know if he's bought Bitcoin then at his next uh if well if if he's if that entity had bought Bitcoin he privately well yeah he could have bought it personally or yeah so I suppose if they get one of the richest men in the universe is tweet about Bitcoin people need to take note right which is why it's big news yeah yep cool yeah cool [Music] um Javier Mele reach one of his stepping stone goals by having the first week without inflation in Argentina over 30 years have Mele Legend uh people jumping on this because they I think you need to are you going to sweep him with a chainsaw are you going to sweep it no way I'm not snatching your broom pal oh are you going to sweep it no I don't know anything about it oh right so I just think people jumped on it thinking it's great news but sometimes like zero interest rates aren't sometimes great news yeah deflationary economies aren't a lot of the time can be hugely problematic it could be like all right wage growth isn't isn't what it was currency 50% didn't they yeah so it's going to have an effect a huge one so if I just highlighted it to maybe do it if you had a broom Road brush this is dust brush this is me getting a dust pan and brush out and say I cannot don't believe that that's just great news cuz for an economy like def huge problems sounds like more like a toothbrush that's why I high you sweep in the grout yeah yeah oh yeah I'm getting the cone out of the way for Danny's Big Brush that's why I highlighted I'll let youor it's not necessarily positive thing okay yeah cool keep an eye on that's how we that's how we end most segments now cool cool yeah why is what ever happened to the Hammer uh maybe we could just get we'll get we'll get an official since we're changing a lot of things coming up we'll get our own one that we don't have to steal from compliance put one that makes proper noise real don't get one that makes a noise cuz then it's harder to ignore isn't it it makes noise the last one yeah just go back to the agenda can we get a dong you get a dong or a Gong you make the noise dong I think we do need someone to move them on rather than just saying cool cuz the hammer was good but Co moving on cool is good right uh muy wallet the functionality of multiple fedin are significantly degraded due to severe DNS issues do you want me to just explain what this is all about I have no idea what that means not going to make sense um so Mutiny wallet uh kind of like non- custodian lightning wallet but they've introduced fedt as well into it so fedt have become a bit of a popular in the more Cipher Punk style Community side of Bitcoin um and some people are building out apps websites things that are using fediman so fedman Federation have we explained this before I don't think so don't need to explain it again um so fediman are a Federation of uh so how do we explain this simply so for example we theoretically it's like an ideal scenario is like you're in a village in an African country which is where I think a lot of them are starting to try and maybe Target where you wouldn't necessarily trust an exchange because the exchange could be compromised by government Etc and and so on so you end up with rather than say you you Mikey you would be an exchange rather than you be the exchange and you hold everyone's Bitcoin for them you have Federation so you have like say four of us that are just man on the street in whatever country or whatever Village that might be and we all hold like a key effectively so we're allowing us to as a customer but it's not customer somebody wants to use our Federation and they're trusting the four of us between us and making sure like 50% it's kind of like I don't want to call it proof of stake in that sense but think of it like that in theory of if 50 50% or more go Rogue they can move some Bitcoin somewhere in some Theory um but the the problem with that is you end up as the people that are the federations that are running the the node effectively that other people can come and and make use of for quick cheap private transactions so they're using like uh ecash stuff so it's more private in terms of the transactions going through the Federation um we can send between ourselves and nobody knows who's sending what where um which is great for privacy bad from government perspective if there's regulations and it'll will collide with regulations going forward forward I'm not sure how that's going to be dealt with in every country will be different um but one of the big problems I think we've always spoken about with this is um you don't know necessarily who that Federation is that you've locked into to put to store your your Bitcoin effectively with these guys it could be a man on the street that actually maybe doesn't even want to act bad he's not a bad actor but he actually just loses the wallet that is the know that is running his house sets on fire and he loses everything he doesn't have a backup Etc and then people potentially at risk of losing their Bitcoin so this is a first example I guess this has only been a bit more jumped on because I think it's the first example of fedy mints going wrong and somebody is hijacked the DNS for I think two of the federations within that Mutiny wallet had listed within their offering so anyone that's used Mutiny wallet that's then used a federation within that wallet um to kind of have access to um ecash in that sense and make quick Bitcoin payments private um their DNS I think two of them had their DNS compromised um and then that's meant that these funds I don't know if the funds have technically been stolen or they've lost access to them funds in some way I'm not sure what the actual outcome of that is but it's caused people problems and basically everyone's saying get your money out quickly if you can and but people are not able to get the money out cuz DNS is looking somewhere else which means it's not able to trigger and say give me my money back so none of them can actually get their money back at the minute or get their Bitcoin back at the minute um so I think that yeah that Twee in itself there why would you entrust a community a community's Bitcoin with amateurs running Hardware or cloud services um which is true it's like it's hard enough for companies and entities and corporations to run it for as a genuine normal business as opposed to man on the street running it and that's what you kind of nice idea but yeah in practice it's just riddled with yeah with um and that's talking that's not even talking Bad actors that's just talking something going wrong with things genuine mistakes and accidents yeah whereas you've not only now got the risk of hackers you've got a risk of Bad actors that you may not even know who these people are as well some of these federations when you go on I actually coincidentally went on Mutiny wallet and had a poke around a couple of weeks ago and and I was looking at the Federation stuff then and but you don't know who they are it's just a name yeah it's like it could be anyone around the world a Fed with scale though that's slightly subverted that risk if you have like the more people involved in that you know those people those trusted Federation parties yeah like what's the average like in terms of I I think I if it's like if you're saying it's like four or five people yeah sure to me that sounds quite extremely risky and and a DNS problem would you know wipe that half that but if you're like hundreds but that's potentially so they've got you've got to scale in some respects and see where it gets I think a big part of that as well is if you're running a federation for example example in the UK you probably are not allowed to legally because you would be custody in people's Bitcoin for them and you'd be them processing the transactions for them so it comes across to what we've just seen in the US at the minute of the SEC coming and grabbing or doj whoever it was coming and grabbing people that are um so Phoenix we saw pull out just because they were unsure because and they didn't even custody it was still non-custodial where they were using um what you call them forgot the name of them uh sub nodes effectively to allow um the non-custodial way to work the way they've set it up and created it um so it's like a pseudo self custodial um but they're still theoretically processing the transactions for they they could that customer couldn't move that Bitcoin without Phoenix in there to help him do that um so as soon as regulations kick in for a lot of these things you then wouldn't be able to as an individual in the UK run it legally so it would be illegal some countries you'd be fine and there's no regulations around it so you'd be able to do what you want um but then it does mean that you are entrusting these Federate federations in countries that don't have regulations that you probably don't have a clue who these people are as well still um and maybe at scale you can make it work in some capacity but um there's a lot of problems still to to resolve with it and figure out I think and this is just a first example of it going wrong um which I'm sure we'll see more of but yeah something to be aware of I think people have warned about these sort of things um but with anything new you're always going to get problems and teething issues and things and this is what they're going to have to figure out yeah looks like the problem here is that just one of them was offline that's enough for none of it to work suppose you could make could you not make it so like you just have a majority online there'll be technical reasons to Al I honestly don't know um it'd be technical reasons to why and why not they've got them set like that and um yeah honestly don't know enough about them to be honest to know what that is um but yeah it's not Silver Bullet scaling and privacy solution for Bitcoin really I think is is a takeaway okay okay um on oh no bitcoin news bcoin corner is our next little point to cover we launched this last week it's pretty cool um got a couple of dear da asking about it actually so we'll just kind of clarify it now um it's a separate toit separate to Brit coiners and it's kind of like a high level five minute video of the top headlines in Bitcoin this week um so we're working with YouTuber Alex glass good guy um he has got such a good voice he has got great voice for for like I mean if he did bedtime stories new Dave manush than happy to put it out there it's like you know it does is gorgeous that got a great voice I'm comfortable saying that like he has got a really him reading stor I was like this you know when people have got a good voice you're like I'm listening listening well that's what we want no no um so yeah first one went out last week which is cool looks great um it'll go out every Friday um it's more it's supposed to be like a bit different from britcoin isn't it it's high level stuff to send out to no coin of friends because the intention who did I see Co is it coach carbon saying like you you were producing them all and he's just like like were you just doing all these producing all these things yeah that's not me producing that just putting it out there but all right um yeah it's it's like I send it this is the sort of thing that I would want to send my mom or my dad who obviously know I'm in Bitcoin but don't know much of what's going on in terms of like new stuff it's always conversations around the price but you're like no there's so much more going on and here's like a short five minute video of like the headlines this week of the most important things so I did send it to them uh and they said they were going to watch but they never got back to me oh I'll just keep keep on trying it's much more digestible isn't it it is it is which is good um but yeah we're still going to do britcoin as they had a couple of worried messages I think about it still going to do britcoin as guys don't worry mhm yeah britcoin is more in depth yeah that's high level for newbies coming in and nail coiners M yeah with an extremely smooth s sounding Alex glass or heavily deep down the rabbit hole Bitcoin is that just don't have time to listen to hour Long's pods and a quick couple coup minutes of what's gone on this week so it works for everything hopefully yeah that's good okay okay couple of also this background on the shelves it's like it's is it like all the Bitcoin books are focused in like it's it's all placed yeah it's beautiful slightly contrived in my I was like what do you actually read in there move those move those books display books I want to see what she's actually got got going on zoom in I always do that on you know when you're just trying to see no I don't know you you know when you cuz most people when they're on some sort of media interview they go they always get to write I've got have loads of books behind me I get to as many as many shelves as possible cuz I'm a reader there's only one I'm remembering I think I know which one any news any news like any F any any interview guy that does it at home he like right get the books behind me and I'm always like trying to scan see who they're reading do you the one that went viral with that kid kid running in remember that one that went viral that one woman on BBC was it did it have a certain item on the on the bookshelf did have on the bookshelf yeah on the bookshelf behind and it was like oh I didn't see that that was like BBC I think I can't pull up oh right why not I pull for you Dave pull it up we blur it out on PVC for God sake it'd be fine yeah it did be fine They carried on the interview with her didn't care only cuz it's cuz maybe people aren't looking but like everyone does it it is see Wales today uh zoom in oh yeah that's just a that's just a money box we all got one of them sh money I got one on my stack had to bring it home in my and guy x-raying was like stopped it I've never been so embar no it was obviously Money Box could you put money in anyway but anyway yeah do I always look at shelves yeah okay no deal those on our let glasses shelf m um onto Dear Dave if he wants to get viral though funny things behind it every episode yeah it' be better than just the like Bitcoin standard so obvious you know I think anyway I thought it was okay uh so we had three de Daves two of them we've already covered so the first one was about um Bitcoin used by coin Corner the other one was about Trump speaking at the Bitcoin that we confirm uh other one we got today was does coin cornery strike as a competitor or more like brothers in arms so this was of the news that strike rolled out to the UK yesterday I'm of the opinion that like Bitcoin only exchanges are all Brothers in Arms brothers from another mother brothers let's do this together yeah so firstly we hate them kidding uh yeah we've obviously we work for S globally is a good example as to what we do there because s globally we work with strike we work with Bob we work with pouch with Trump all these ones that we work with for that um the Bitcoin company um Ibex like all of them they're all like the Bitcoin only lightning companies focused companies and we've been talking and working together for years now in terms of what we even just before we did s globy we were still talking to each other and communicating um sen globally brought us together to actually integrate products between our sales which has been good um and that's helped bring us together a little bit tighter um of course we are all still compe it's like you know it's it's the same as saying our Swan and river and everyone else a competitor to strike in the US yeah of course they are but don't mean to say they hate each other um you can be friendly still there's no harms still talk to strike um it doesn't they're a competitor of course they are that's technically just you couldn't deny that just a that's a fact um but it's not like we're going to go out there and start slagging them off and saying users and not them negative campaigns just one it's not the way we do it anyway as a company um two this is a brand new industry there the the when you think of things of growing a market we're here to grow the market not to steal the market from other people so it's not necessarily um our focus is growing that market not stealing even from stealing from coinbase and binance things we're not bothered about that we're not trying to go and steal from them we're trying to grow the market which is growing it for the industry and for Bitcoin as a whole um so the way I look at it is is that way it doesn't really change them opening to the UK doesn't change they're open to lots of other countries as well and it's just the way it is we're open to lots of countries we're soon to be open to more um but yeah yeah it is what it is it's the benefit of Bitcoin if it's a competitive market landscape that anyone can get involved with there very little barriers to entry well there's more on that regulatory stuff but it keeps it all Keen you would much prefer it this way than a monopoly on it it's just not what bitcoin's about no yeah the competition is always good for an industry and for a market and innovation and um what I want though is you focus on the Innovation you don't focus when you end up with competitors fees is always one that people come on to and people jump on and no strike have done that in the US heavily where they've compared themselves to uh Swan and River I can't remember whoever they compare themselves to um for me that's not you shouldn't really be doing that we would not do that in that sense and start comparing yeah the fee thing is like yes we could all charge zero fees for the next six months but then at some point you're going to have to introduce fees at some point to make business model work while you've got Venture Capital back in you can you can do that and you can reduce them fees and give it for free but you just to grab as many customers as you can but in the long run you're going to know them customers are going to end up having to pay at some point for some sort of fees or they're going to to find different business models of revenue streams of how they do that um so I don't think competitiveness in some scenarios don't make sense like everyone just reducing fees doesn't make sense you see that every bare Market this isn't just like the US ones we've seen recently every bare Market you see as these crypto exchanges start to see volumes drop they start introducing lower fees or a lot of them have done zero trading fees for periods of time during bare markets to try and attract people to come back and do something um and every time they have to add fees at a later Point there's none that exists with zero fees forever all ETFs at the minute they all trying to race to zero fee and they've all got time periods on because they can't do it forever no and eventually they'll consolidate in some respects and then they'll start adding fees on and that's what you don't want you don't want this is I'm saying this from not because I want don't want someone to come and say hard fees are cheaper and steal customers I'm saying it from the long-term perspective like Mike saying there and what you just touched on in terms of a monopoly you don't want one player to come in and just say our fees are the cheapest everybody goes there the other guys get Consolidated or merged acquired bankrupt whatever that looks like for the other guys and then there's one big player left at the end that is then a monopoly that then puts the fees up stifles Innovation puts the fees up um basically controls everything in in the manner we've seen decentralized Network into a centralized one yeah so you don't want that um so you you want them to when competition comes into a market you want all them Market comp uh competitors to actually innovate really innovate and actually do stuff that is focused around benefiting the industry as a whole in I guess yeah more of a decentralized aspect um we'll have to see I'm not talking about Striker by the way this is just me in general in terms of competition market and we've you know we've got we've got coinbase we've got all these other competitors in in in the UK already in that industry and there isn't really another Bitcoin only one so it's nice to have another one there and help drive if they're going to help us drive regulations and things like that as well and push on on that side of things um and push on the Bitcoin versus crypto as aspect and angle whereas Kraken and coinbase Etc of on crypto so they don't really care um so it's nice to have somebody else helping hopefully differentiate and drive that a little bit with us but I wonder how they find in I mean I we like strike I wonder how they find in maintaining their independence with the VCS that they have in terms of I think that would be a future problem for strike eventually cuz like I said they they need a return well basically any VC company that's heavily backed that doesn't maintain a Founders power I suppose within the boardroom can be we've talked about it before it's almost influenc into roots they probably don't want to go down and like strike a moment of you know kind of one tracked a little bit in a good way and then but I wonder if they ever get enough pressure to deviate down a track that he doesn't want to go down that'd be my worry for the future for them I it's wor for every company that's that's B every company that goes public every like that the public side that you see that coinbase that's they need to figure out how to make isn't it yeah yeah it it stops the focus of the industry and even grow in a new market they don't care whether they're grow in the market or whether they're stealing the market they just need to increase revenues to profit because you're just never going even much VC says it they're never going to have the same passion for Bitcoin itself I don't think no they don't some of don't like about us in terms of our independence but you know it's just one of them things is it yeah right is that it that's it it right nice one cheer cool great cheers guys byebye [Music]