Scaling Bitcoin with the Lightning Network | Britcoiners by CoinCorner #89

Join Danny, Molly, Zakk, and Dave for this weeks ramblings. Topics this week include: Hidden Repression: IMF & World Bank book review, El Salvador politics, Bitcoin price, PayPal’s increase in crypto holdings, BoE fintech head says crypto doesn’t "fulfil any of the functions of money", Goldman Sachs, Microsoft, Deloitte and others to launch a new blockchain, new Twitter CEO is Executive Chair at the WEF, Florida governor signs CBDC bill into law restricting some uses of US and foreign CBDCs, Binance calls it quits in Canada blaming new rules, BoE chief economist regrets urging people to "accept they are poorer", Treasury Committee report: Crypto trading should be regulated as gambling, Danny and Dave's IFA roadshow continues, Why we aren't in Miami, Oxford City FC National League promotion, and Question time. Subscribe to our new Britcoiners YouTube channel: ⁠⁠ This episode is sponsored by CoinCorner ( - A global leader in Bitcoin and Lightning services.

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[Music] yo yo right price Dave pipe nope PayPal uh crypto Holdings increasing Bank of England's um saying crypto doesn't fulfill any functions of money uh Goldman Sachs Microsoft Etc launching a blockchain um yeah Twitter CEO uh new lady in place um Florida Governor signs cbdc a law sorry Bill into law binance calls it quits in Canada um Bank of England Economist uh regrets urging people to accept their poorer um at least he acknowledges I guess uh consumer cryptocurrency trading should be regulated as gambling by the treasury Committee in the UK according to them and then we've got some coconut news as well and some questions loads of coin Corner news that agenda was long what a fantastic book it was fantastic we care about do we care yeah fundamentally you should very much care I have no idea what book it is so can you remember the titles hidden repressions by Alex gladstein uh brilliant means I could both read it it's about the manipulation of uh loans from the IMF and the World Bank to third world countries basically I read it it's enslaving them with debit but I can't read did I give you what I need it I mean but yeah but I could like the size of the book I could literally just record me reading it if you could do that that'd be great I mean I'd love the power of that in terms of if I'm playing under the voice in your car telling the wrong things speak to you all day and then constantly in your head yeah I'd like that please and then there's some audio a I know you can overlay someone else's voice get glassdine's voice yeah that's a good idea you've got either rocks Voice or something that'd be great that's the end the rock the long storyline prices anyway you would extremely opening book do you know what do you know 80 of Nigeria's yielding revenue is spent on um debt interest repayment 80 percent so all their tax income so they can't put it to anything else what's that in comparison to the UK or the US that's a huge like but I haven't got the comparables you say you need a comparable it's certainly thank you Maggie all right I will take that because I do always have click on Parables but it will be like nowhere near like the the UK and America are the guys riding alone so that it's basically creating a debt spiral for all these countries so they can't get out of here and even if you were a despot dictator of some Nation you would get a loan from the IMF they love dictators yeah absolutely dwindle it away get rid of it wasted fraudulently spend it the country is still the one that's in debt to the IMF they can't they won't Escape that loan yeah so it's absolutely outstanding who they would give loans to the willingness to work with them but imagine doing that it's like a bank giving out a loan to a gangster yeah and then the everyone in that gangster's family or the gangsters country essentially has to repay it doesn't matter there's no consequence EMF it's absolutely outstanding the level of debt that's being created the interest payments like being generated it's creating a huge demand for the US dollar by the way yeah just what like a an operation they've got going off they give out the loan and then they have to force them to focus on exports so building roads so they can get all their what they call cash crops out of the country there's most of these loans stipulate that you cannot raise the minimum wage in that country and you cannot spend it on Health Care in that country because it has to be focused on exports that are required by the Richer Nations that are in the right angle loans so the Richer Nations European America Japan all are putting Capital way back in the 40s but they do it all they do stock up the capital of it and then but it's disproportionate to their economies themselves but then they manipulate the structure of the loan so that like basically it's taking assets Out of Africa yeah for literally is a lot of battery stuff a lot of the raw materials so it's exported to them at a better cheaper rate that they can then sell on predominantly back to those countries like food a lot of food production is really declined in those in those they're important and they import it from these countries but they could be you know growing their own food but it's just not incentivized enough it's so warped it's such a good book people need to read it and it's yeah I think linking back to bitcoin as well my biggest not takeaway but um interesting thought from it was now the first one with Argentina's latest one they stipulated they had to take an anti-crypto stance so if that's going to be their thing going forward you know regulatory in all these countries could actually be quite bad for the industry in the poorer countries that they did most yeah so it's making it like the outside sheds a new light on what El Salvador yeah in terms of like so Bitcoin is the Escape Route basically it's a different race I think our email Salvador he doesn't touch on the book but I thought it's about if once but Kelly's gone someone else could come in back to normal mine shaking IMF alone yeah it's all down the drain it's keeper Kelly and as long as you can really don't you give it the the chance it needs how long is a term in El Salvador how long is the info he's only got a few left disease well this is a very obvious you shouldn't legally be allowed to run next year yeah but they're changing the law so he can't you should you should really keep refreshing like that it's you couldn't change that in the UK literally the term is the set amount of years and you've got to get someone new in because it just it is difficult otherwise it's a balancing that's where if you just keep them in Forever it's a dictator whereas if you refresh them if you've got someone good you don't want to lose them in well you should have a good party yeah it shouldn't be about the individual well a lot of the time it is though but the Public's here is the figurehead and the person who that is like the Kelly the public then get a vote on it so they the party should put forward their proposals and then the people get a vote on it it shouldn't be that right you don't get a choice it's me because I think I'm doing a great job yeah that it's our consensus that he's doing a great job but the people in North Salvador might be not thinking that and it's up to them but his uh thingy rates I think he has a good approval yeah his approval rate show that he is he shouldn't be worried about the polls and they should have succession mandate yeah yeah they should be able to yeah he should be able to continue his what I'm saying then yeah start Balancing Act of letting him continue letting him well I wouldn't let him continue you wouldn't no he should choose the next successor in his party is the next successor so I and they should have a strict what their um but the Mandate would they want to get through them and then people should be able to vote on that or the alternative yeah I said I disagree I think if you're doing good and it's good who decides who's doing good well 92 of the country that voted for so let them approval rating so the approval rate isn't that vote I know I know but that's an indicator so you just go off an approval rating indicator instead of a democratic policies of people voting up yes no a high level here we're talking how 99 of the public in the countries don't go into debt so you're talking about that they will see high level of what that leader is doing like look at the UK so you're saying get rid of get rid of polls no no never said that but we're in a voting I mean you've already gone off agenda no I think yeah we'll get back to it but we are saying just use the opinion ball no no but the crooks over here so let's do a poll who's right Daniel Dave yeah which is allowing him to run again there is still a vote it's just whether he's allowed to run again isn't it which is fine I think you should be able to run again is why I'm saying because I think you shouldn't be able to change your law to to decide whether you'll run longer well why should he be able to change the law for anything because it's for the good of the people rather than at least for the good of people but you don't know that you're based on an opinion poll I'm basing that on what the people are saying right which is 92 saying yes what the people are saying yeah right that I don't live there I don't know but 90 of the public there I think it's nice I've never seen an opinion at all they are approved proven of Kelly so actually in that scenario then why would you go against what people are saying but yeah yeah you're just putting a lot of Reliance on an opinion Paul rather than people going to the polls and actually voting yeah but that how what did he get voted in for this time what was his uh poll numbers this time and then I gotta remember let him run again and let the public vote again is what I'm saying I just think it's it's like in a lot of Industries if you're working in a key area Okay accounts it happens a lot they make in banking happens a lot they make you got two weeks holidays right why because I shouldn't give this away I think you're making this connect this with the camera because it's it's to make sure that you are not committing any fraud because it would be found out and if you've taken two-week holiday isolate from the business so if bikeli can be separated from from El Salvador's policies that is proving to be quite successful in El Salvador then it highlights that it's not fraudulent is this actually the base policies that are working so it shouldn't be the individuals not and you've got some new leader and then it starts going the wrong direction you say oh crap let's bring him back because you can't according to you could run again but he's not allowed to couldn't see I could run he could look like you might be able to do a term afterwards can he is he allowed to in our Salvador I don't know the law no I don't know either he looks hungry I'm trying to think he did it might be fat shaking who did it in how many how often was Winston Churchill promise or did he just run two terms with separated trying to think of an example of someone doing this doing more than two or not consecutive but when you've got something good you should be embracing that and you shouldn't be yeah but it's it's you shouldn't be saying I mean it's your opinion on good but it might be driven by a group of people not an individual yeah which is what I'm saying it's social matter of anyone in our party should be able to be the president yeah and the same policy this shouldn't be about the individual and it shouldn't change but it will 100 will it already does that in the UK [Music] imagine if we had someone like me Kelly who we all thought was really good and got in power and then he wasn't allowed to run for the next turn but we're going to end up with back with Boris because he should be making changes that would allow the the pie to carry on rather than just the individual but it wants a lot of the next individual comes into Power them changes can change again I don't think we're ever going to agree on this just go around the circle Buster you're at the itinerary not your art and it's the itinerary itinerary because we should like Miami's kicking off there's loads of stuff happening in Bitcoin and we're arguing about politics yeah good policing politics of an opinion polls on on which we're both not really in our wheelhouse no um so on the agenda to price 27 365 dollars wow we had that argument before the Bro straight away it's like everything's back and he's off agenda that's back this is the full squad for the first time in five hours and I'm gonna be off this week but I'm here yeah um that was a quick swallow for everybody listening yes some complaints about that last time don't pick them up anymore do we hey I sort out yeah I thought I was going off there I saw these men it doesn't believe me I think I like it okay it adds the authenticity um so PayPal's crypto Holdings increased by 56 in q1 2023 to nearly one billion dollars now I wanted to just is that quiet Holdings clarify yeah yeah yeah it's not there they don't have anything yeah so I thought so okay um I talked to Clara everyone was jumping on this in the news I had a lot of the time I just ignore these things because I can't believe commenting on especially on socials but I think this is a good place to air it and kind of put that out there I have no look to the detail um their financials exactly I'm guessing those people that have wrote These articles and people that have interacted with these articles and these news of probably not either um but it's increased 56 in q1 from Q4 last year Q4 last year ended up at Bitcoin you just think it's a re-evaluation exactly the Bitcoin price is up that was up at like thirty thousand dollars at the end it nearly doubled yeah so an increase of 56 in q1 um well to a billion dollars is not exactly so you need to see the underlying Bitcoin holding Bitcoin probably relevant since the start of the year has gone up like 70 so actually if they lost Bitcoin can we lost but they actually that they're holding less clear but the dollar value has just gone up uh like that okay but that was my thought process and straight away I'm thinking like how is nobody putting two and two together does everyone just takes these things at Facebook I've not looked at their financials normally you have a note of the underlying so you could probably you could probably yeah yeah so I think yeah yeah that's why I just didn't go and look at myself but I was curious to see oh I mean that is actually every day for Bitcoin asking users that's in great headline it's bullish that's just all yeah for the details yeah that's all news in every industry yeah which is mad I would like people to actually pull out the actual details of these things and then talk about it if it's not bullish it's not bullish at the end of the day let's be honest let's not people haven't got time for that let's just look at the headline but nice headline move on scroll on but we're falling that then our industry is falling into the traps of other Industries in the media out there in the world where they put a headline out that we know full well how much they attack Bitcoin with energy and all these things of without detail and at higher level and we're doing exactly the same thing back which I some people may argue that's fighting fire with fire but I would rather be an upfront honest industry when it comes to news and detail since which um it smells catchy though as if it's pink yeah well it just shouldn't because the price went up but it should just not be new do you want to be that guy at the party there he is yeah that guy in the corner they've checked the underlying Planet but now I guess is they're holding less Bitcoin I might make that I'll make that many minimum get out of here yeah so maybe maybe we can find out on Twitter okay uh and counteracts deadline but it's just oh you're right though if it has gone up 50 if they're Holdings of Bitcoin have gone up 56 then that's actually really good so that means there's a massive chunk of Bitcoin been bought there um but actually it's just the dollar values gone up I think um I don't know if they Define how many because they translate dollar I think on their financials so I'm not sure if they'll say how many Bitcoin their whole yeah where are they registered Delaware probably Delaware I don't see anything yeah yeah well the public company so they have to put Slumber child on it um so they do put I think but I'll sort of a little snip snippet of it but it just had like the dollar value of the Bitcoin and the dollar value with ethereum and stuff so you can't it's gone up in the dollar value but okay what that means is let's let's make news actual news let's deliver the real news Bank of England fintech head says crypto doesn't fulfill any functions of money um Bank of England crypto ad fintech had okay and then do can we just quickly show a video of Sam globally that'd probably be quite useful actually yeah we were managed to transfer as wealth across nations in instantly first pennies so we'll either put that in the links in in the YouTube video so you can just click around and see mice has not got enough time remember he's getting trying to get push this out in one day hey I'll do it for you that's a pretty naive statement though for ahead of fintech yeah everything is ridiculous of it um pretty dying isn't it but I mean we've had conversations yesterday didn't we oh my God I didn't I cannot wait to get onto coin con and use it I wasn't even putting it out I'm just waiting for you to churn through this agenda when you talk about actual stuff that we're doing this isn't garbage headlines when you were talking about the IMF thing I'll come back to the book yeah good time to jump in there um with the book yeah but it would also touch and relate to this as well of yeah it's just yeah because both follows on from the um IFA the financial advisor conversations we've been having oh the road to Area Schools this year okay so you think we just sound crazy to people the Roadshow it's our road show their sign feels like a shirt right so do we sound crazy yeah in the first five seconds yes yeah you like we can convert them so quickly unbelievable we've been in this we've just like could have been in I've been five years done it's been forever since it's a toddler but you can literally just like you know it's at the touch you don't even delay you've got you've got it all your fingers we've read everything we've been so absorbed yeah an IFA can't any question it's just like oh no it's just so many misconceptions it's so much fun but we must sound crazy to some people even from afar look in it uh we're rattling off about the hour but I sounded I called my they said sorry tangent I call my an interesting one of my uh sisters is a doctor in like yeah yeah Renewables and I've read that BBC article probably not in this agenda where there's a lot of trap they're like the greatest 10 years behind yeah so there's huge Wind Farm projects that can't get on the grid but they kind of got planning and they're starting to put the footings in but yeah it's like you can't just have to get to know Revenue so I phone my sister outside I was like look I've got the solar project in the home on my shed I understand I can tell you going through I can take energy it's the same thing it's exactly the same thing it's just a different scale okay they've got more wind turbines and I've got solar panels but it's the same thing I can take that energy and convert it into sure that's where to pull it in so ice and phoned her as like right give me some contacts you must know people and she has and she will she sent me some stuff but she said to me as a civil servant because she works for the nuclear now and and my other sister's on the call because that I've not spoken to her for 18 months accidentally catch up yeah so she was also a civil service they were like it will take you about 10 years to get anything this is a it's a good idea it's absolutely you have to surprise it at least they were just like it would yeah the grid it will be a race between you and the grid because it's it's going to take that long to get anything pushed through even if it's a good sound idea where you could use that yeah isolated energy so basically it's got wind farms I can't connect to a grid so just wasting it but the drought they've had they would rather waste it and go for anyone commit or all the red tape then actually he'll just hook up mine is an actually massive oversight to build all that without knowing you had access to the grid immediately that well unless they knew it I mean it's a long term I mean yeah yeah it is hugely complicated things yeah and it says the loads of parties involved in all that so I I don't know maybe it is it does sound stupid yeah it is it's good that people listening as well this is like what we do in the background is not just running an exchange we are finding and talking and these are the things I said to you literally the last three weeks should we talk about it in your land it's because they weren't here and I know Dave's more passionate about the energy side than unless you've been slagging late yeah you know what he's like no it's like you know we are done long enough yeah that's what we do yeah come back down to the so um yeah we're still on that as we're all over at the moment anyway when I we've sat that project after Dave thing no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no you went in Danny made progress when we're wrong I found your stream no no no no this is something else streamers pivot the stream the streamer doesn't really scale no so they're burning for all listeners I was looking at yeah I'll just quickly talk about this because you can talk about two minutes I thought you could do it so we were looking at what the Isle of Man isn't Sunny so solar panels aren't as efficient as elsewhere um so we're looking at renewable energy sources just to run miners offers little projects just to show people how easy it is just so there's something tangible we learned from the ball card that um you can show something physically it helps people understand the concepts of Bitcoin a bit better so if you then create a little renewable mining unit it might help say a farmer or someone that has no current understanding of Bitcoin the capabilities what we can do so we were looking at streams because the Isle of Man is a mountainous area that gets a lot of rain so it does have a lot of streams but the sewing assistant they haven't got a um a really large enough head resources where the water is high enough they don't hold in the reservoirs enough this doesn't use it yeah does it yeah so there's there's only limited reservoirs which you can't touch because it's drinking water so it's it's almost Alamance almost too small to scale any sort of mining operation not that we still wouldn't just pick one stream that we eventually find it and put a generator on it because you can do that um but it wouldn't be scalable as a business sensor Fisheries allow it yeah so it's unbelievable of any government department just weighed in Fisheries have an issue with a mountain stream he's oh my God in case you damage and hurt the fish yeah these are all the things anyway so it's an ongoing project stuff so um we'll keep people updated because me and Zach are getting involved um there so that was that really um so there was a BBC article this week about isolated energies yeah yeah and I think it's a popular thing in the industry these days and that's why we've been looking at it we've been looking at the last year or so really um I've been looking at I used to mine what 11 years ago now yeah um so I used to I'm kind of I understand how it all works and I would come back to it at some point in the future but only if it's viable um yeah I guess financially scalability and it's just we're always paying attention but I suppose from a company yeah you have to look at scalability into so this has to be a side project from for for us guys that we could just do at home because it doesn't scale for coin and if we know it can scale we can jump in and do yeah a bit of plan but you can't scale it in the element realistically and at all UK you probably can but there's a lot more red tape and things yeah you have to go private I think from all this yeah so we're still so we look at those it's nice to be looking in that sort of space anyway in terms of what this industry is about yeah anyway anyway back to the agenda um I will catching this eventually gold but this one can be a very quick one Goldman sites Microsoft Deloitte and others are launching a new blockchain together news from 2014. yeah but it's literally I think about 2015 let's say maybe that was probably about it's not already already done that yeah that's what I'm saying literally news from two that's the same company you're talking about the same company same company is doing the same same stuff all over again it's like and a new back onto blockchain again it's like are you kidding me what year is this um so it was just more of a passing comment this one we're not going to get into detail that um again probably another bit of a passing topic considering we've already rambled on um Twitter new CEO Linda no idea you pronounce her second name I'm not going to try yaka chirinov nail now Linda Linda um she's uh gonna be the new CEO of Twitter she's actually the executive chair at the weft yes and uh her background obviously is heavily related to um big Financial uh involvements so being on the weft uh board is it I think she's on or whatever she is her executive chair position um it's an interesting one I think knowing what elon's trying to do with Twitter and make it this payments rail from to bring on the CEO from that position and kind of shows his Direction he's looking to yell there um and it's not cryptocurrency and decentralization it's control hmm But I mean world economic for the web they you know they touch a lot of different pies I suppose yeah under the Twitter is ultimately a global Free Speech platform so there's Synergy there's a lot of synergy definition of free speech these days yeah there's a there's a lot of Technology from what she's been you have to pay for speech on Twitter these days that's ridiculous um and then we're just I'm following on that because I think that is just helping continue show Elon musk's um direction of what he envisions to her to be which is effectively going to be some sort of payments company it's the new PayPal um but he is he he does a little bit I think he's he's going in in my head creating the same mistakes over again he could have just um uh Embrace Bitcoin um and instead he's gone and bought Twitter and trying to turn it into next paper um what makes you think he's gonna turn it into next paper the every move he's done since he bought to her studies tweet about it becoming a payment when he announced the CEO I think he said the CEO of Twitter X so they're going to Rebrand ZX at some point yeah it's because he still owns that domain and it's going to be it was like week and we chat in China he wanted to be is it WeChat yeah yeah that does the payments and stuff um so he basically wants to clone them and be like them for the rest of the world so he's trying to just recreate PayPal even though what two years three years ago if he said he made a mistake with PayPal and Bitcoin was what PayPal should have been and then now he's gone back to try and recreate PayPal again it's just ridiculous you've got more money in the world he can never have do something good for people don't just try them well he's saving the planet mate of course yeah yeah he's saving the planet with them lithium mines and moving to Mars no that's what the centralized Financial paying system for the world and you know everything else starts planetary system the multi-planetary organism that humans have to be to survive I agree with that I got a great book by the way oh it would be called after after man and it's a book about so um evolution of animals in the next 50 million years if humans didn't exist and what they'd look like and it's just this guy who you know from like Works in a museum there's like a book from the 70s and he's just drawn animals for what they look like well if he got because someone sent it to me because they thought I'd like the illustrations this is what a kangaroo will look like in 50 million years and it's the best book ever yeah I'll bring it in and you'll get it because it's like illustrations yeah when it becomes to survive in that area after the tectonic plates move very but very left field but I loved it I'm intrigued yeah yeah should we go past the agenda yeah tangents uh Florida Governor signs cbdc bill into law restricting uh some uses of U.S and foreign cbdc's uh definitely interest I think it's Texas are doing similar as well they're already reducing foreign cbdc usage they're restricting it in some way I don't really know detail of how and what they're doing there right is this the same guy who is that the centers uh he thinks yeah they're always so they're already trying to moat a network that doesn't doesn't yet there's no experience pro-american cbdc and then he's like okay so as our taxes I think and I think there's somewhere else looking to do that that's not somewhere random we've never heard it like it wasn't Montana was it Montana Australia have brought those out over the Reddit today I think whereas Australian cbdc came from nowhere yeah they might have even done some sort of payment on it just that's literally like could even be breaking news copy and paste Bitcoin make a payment done yeah but imagine that publicity if you're a politician is yeah got a wireless line prototype is something that a level working back to the book The IMF for this wasn't in the book but they are actively helping these countries with cbdc projects and launching them aren't they said they had over like 70 countries ask them but how else do they keep control how else do these countries look like they're doing something so it might be part of the new loans are part of the structural adjustments they might have to create cbdc's in the future the IMF of them can I do what they want countries and governments it's proven over history have never been good at controlling the money stop let's move on that is literally it binance calls quotes on Canada blames new rules what we're the new rules sorry because I saw that they they had announced I know there's no other places that operate in Canada these days sister yeah no idea when I was in a while ago didn't we yeah we're not in there so I'm not sure what they they were um but yeah there's it's just regulation clamping down Finance don't give a [ __ ] I I think they were dying to now they don't but yeah I think now they're they're starting to in certain areas depending on they probably looked at their numbers and yeah not worth it for yeah money driven um Bank of England Chief Economist regrets urging people to accept they are poorer do you know the average price of a sausage roll from Greg's has gone from one pound at the start of 2022 to one pound 20 at the start of this year 20 increase on food outrageous everyone's feeling it even the people at Greg's we don't have a drugs on the other one so we can't be them people we should by the way if I would look at that franchise because I could mop up that would that would yeah cause there wasn't really this little local Bakers isn't the sort of things like that but nothing correct stuff congratulations I absolutely wipe the floor with anything over it yeah it probably would have anyone's got a bit of free time I want to open a bakery with me yeah let me know solar panels we'll cook the sausage rolls with the excess heat from somewhere yeah so did you ever sit down on an evening and realize everyone's once you've got the kids to bed and you've got about an hour an hour an hour of activity and you look at all the things that you may have started so I've got seven sides this week I might as well start this course you need to focus is the hard part and focus on yeah it's difficult it's impossible it's not possible I swear I've got like ADHD or something really just like jump around that's just outside I need to get me some real in or something whatever it is entrepreneurs do that we say CBD what happened to that CBD yeah how's it going how did you stop yeah does it concentration yeah I think it was actually I think you can sell it just like know yourself as ADHD I don't think it is that anyway I think entrepreneurial you get what mentality mind is you a new idea pops up and you want to jump on it and it's just the way that I think entrepreneurs are built and drive it's a compliment for you Dave full of them isn't it it's a backhanded complimentation um yeah that one frustrates me yeah I mean he shouldn't have said it to start with in some ways but he is being honest I I feel like he she's the first honest thing they've said for a while no I read so I read this he regrets his choice of words he doesn't regret seeing what he said he regrets his choice of words right which I think is fair I think because it's been repeated a lot no when he said it and it did get publicized because it's a nice Sound by people need to start feeling poor um so he worked at the sentiment it's completely true and people are seeing in their mortgage rates and people seeing it absolutely everyone see in the sausage rolls dude well we had this conversation you say it's just it's frustrating like I personally frustrated by society and the fact that the other everyone thinks that they can should have cars on finance or the latest iPhone or whatever whereas use your sweeping statement No One if you I think the majority I think you should write with the majority there is a lot of the westernized materials yeah and then stuff like this happens and everyone's like oh no I haven't planned I haven't done it's not even it is people's fault but it's going back to like it's the way the world's gone in Innovation marketing they're telling you you need this every year you need a new phone every year Innovations happening so quickly you always want the latest thing look at Apple they actually forced people to get the new phones by slowing down the old ones and they got caught out doing that it's like you know they are literally forcing that onto people um but they've got enough cash to not care um the individuals out there public don't they will yeah but you've got you've got a economy driven by unchecked consumerism you need people to keep buying stuff well as people start losing jobs and then you've got real problems so whose problems does it come back to well it's the individual isn't it if you had a political party they gave you an alternative to vote for you certainly need for Kelly in power and you know and you had to put an alternative party to vote for then the people would advocate I think I think but you're talking about socialism a little bit I don't know what solution is but it's I don't think to be angry at this this whole of society will do you any favors I'm I'm not doing sure externally but I'm angry I've never seen you angry Molly that would be so funny an angry Molly just more pissed off like people just don't think long term I don't know if it's just a Bitcoin or mindset and when you see normies or whatever who are driving around in the latest call already like people who are not clued up about state of the world like why is nobody like for well you know I have I've got friends who in the last couple of years have gone out and bought the biggest house they can afford because like mortgage interest rates are whatever yeah but my money's cheap that's good advice yeah but like Common Sense tells you they're not going to stay at like whatever they were one percent and now when people are coming round and they're having to renew those more just like [ __ ] I've got half a million pound house and I can't afford to yeah but I mean I can't fly away so we're like like when these years where loans are extremely cheap you can't and then people got in the mindset that that wouldn't change I think people have been said to have like was it if money's that cheap for that long you can kind of give people people if you're not like an industry like ours it's forgivable responses and the amount of the the real money went on and obviously the reaction now should be like what the bank of England guy is saying is people are gonna have to accept that they are poor and you have to cut back on things and do things not turn around and say I've been real pulled somebody else needs to solve my problem like give me more money or something that's not uh you know that's kind of in some ways and I don't say an easy way out or whatever people are trying to do and they'll try and push the problem on somebody else but actually the reality is yeah most of the most of the world right now is going to end up being poorer in some capacity the amount of people that go and buy lunch every day although have some common sense meal prep you'll save money there but they're just like oh no they're just lazy it's hard to get in the Minecraft room because like that it's just my mind I'm angry because it's just it's a I hate victim mentality and it's like okay you're whinging about it but you're not doing anything about its change like the circumstances have changed so be proactive like don't go and buy lunch every day because you're spending a final day like you can come back as much as you want but there's 16 grocery inflation is 16 gross in your Collision you can't afford food there's that tip in bodies yeah I'm trying to cut back but that's that's the ones I feel really yeah yeah it's like you know how how I'm not gonna say how do you help us there's nothing I can do yeah to help help them unfortunately but um you know they're the ones that yeah imagine there's a massive increase of people to like turn into food banks and stuff because they just can't afford food yeah but do they sorry this is gonna sound very high but do they still people still have Netflix do they still have oh yeah the ones that can cut back is yeah yeah it should be coming back I think there's a variety yeah yeah well mechanical back but just don't want to some of them but I think Zach is right like there's a lot of people out there um that just physically cannot afford these things and the 20 increase in um food is not helping them at all um so yeah there's there's a variety of them I think um I'm not mad at them I'm mad at the people that won't cut back but can you're ahead of the game with your lunches weren't you yeah always I'm I'm a mortgage the 16 people want to keep showing off about that yeah yeah couple suit 16p a day I think it is you you're right as well exactly in this industry you end up you kind of start to understand the economy and finance a bit better and you start to then actually like spending on things that you're not necessary yeah I don't I don't buy anything these days to be honest but yeah if I wasn't in this industry I wouldn't even be aware of as where as I am now of like you say you can you can always be forgiven for not seeing it coming if you're not in the industry and keeping organized I think so all right anyway it's just that time that's a very depressing subject being really mad there guys get yourself a stress ball this is why I've taken a box and again recently no I bought a few times on the old punch bag do profite or amateur fight Trail and develop oh my would you probably sponsorship my teeth okay how much sponsorship for some charity organization would it take for you to do thrill in the Villa boxing I'm not doing Thriller in the village I think you'd be brilliant no so have your eyes off I've seen you play football you are actually extremely competitive oh I'm small but I'm fated and I'm faceful I've seen the women punches yeah no I saw one of the women that fought last year and she was terrifying yeah but no they put you in a weight class it would be a similar size person to use a small child they'd find something [Laughter] I accidentally watched um definitely watch yeah you know when you're scrolling like rough and rowdy fights oh I still do it's just like brutal that's funny yeah that is funny it's not sometimes I just yeah they're happy enough right agenda yeah Danny's Switched Off right oh yeah I was bored I started reading things consumer cryptocurrency trading should be regulated as gambling the treasury committee says in a new report how long do women go for I have my kid 41 minutes oh sorry we've got bits got a later time go off time I read the treasury committee report cool then so the committee is kind of to keep the government in check say it's like a an ex external pie so sunoxide he wants to create a hub for this sort of Industry cryptocurrencies um and the treasury committee have to you know how you get up to the treasury committee well you have to I really don't know no I don't know how you get appointed to the treasury committee but if you looked at the MPS that involved a lot of them had banking or economic history um so they know a bit about high high level seen this report yeah but they also take a lot of uh the people that wrote the report obviously aren't the MPS they take a lot of researchers on to comment from the bank of England do you know who they reached out to in the research they did on this yeah there's the ripples some guys that's a ripple to ask them yeah they've probably reached out to a lot of people but they got a ripple balance of Ripple were part of who that I'm aware of you can see at the end of the report you can see yeah come off it but you can see some of the contributors at the end of the report that was all quite transparent binance which is the the biggest Exchange in the world that is just say an F you to all the regulatory landscape everywhere and ripple who has literally paid five million dollars to attack Bitcoin come off it I did say you did Bitcoin policy UK submitted something to them yeah looks like it got completely ignored ready ready yeah it just got ignored yeah yeah we're actually mentioned in that yeah so that submission submission he did so they do they do talk about the the payments piece in the report and how it could you know this use cases for it but although it's the the whole premise is that you know Bitcoin getting tired with the same cryptocurrency stuff like Finance to me is gambling that we we call them Casino the same with coinbase all of that is gambling so if you've not separated Bitcoin from the rest of what we already view as gambling then you are you aren't going to say all right it needs to be regulated to save as gambling but there's no problem the problem is that it's not separated the people I speak to aren't particularly Advocates of doing that because no because they're Ripple and binance of course they're not going to do it um and they do again they do the energy usage bit and add a little look at some of the MPS involved and one of the MPS who puts his name into this is in the treasury committee what had the highest um energy and there's like 500 MPS so it must be a big old chunky Bill and he's so there was a bit of a lot of it's no one's whiter than white but I just thought it's quite funny to be moaning about Bitcoin like crypto energy usage and then being the guys let me just put that big claim [ __ ] to my heart so that's why I haven't seen it yeah so I can see what the role was he also criticized the government for um the Royal min nft um which was a government institution and so this committee is saying like you shouldn't be doing projects like that yeah no we can understand why we want to be a hub most of this looks like gambling we as a Bitcoin Advocate need to after our Endeavor should be in separating Bitcoin out from crypto since a big part of this they don't listen to us they just will not listen uh we've spoken some like the royal men I mean you we spoke to him I did before about this we literally didn't uh yeah um and help to educate people on bitcoin so that they just but maybe that's why we'll have to get slightly more behind the Bitcoin policy UK people yeah yeah um and do but they've clearly made how small to them that's the it's really frustrating but you get to a point where after I've been doing this for 10 years I've got I've got to a point of last few years I just I'm just focused on us and focusing but you can't you can't even if I can't give up no you can't leave on the door you can't and there is everybody out there in industry is doing that as a combination and we still have to deal on torts regularism we still try and push things through but I try and move first and then let the regulator catch up and we can educate them as they catch up things like volca and stuff like that where we if we went to them and said we want to do this blah blah before we did the products and released it and things that would be a bad way to do it um so you kind of Regulation always catches up um because otherwise then it's not really um yeah I mean we're lucky to have quite open Channels with Regulators in terms of discussions aren't we have to work with them in the alaman yes um I think always have done over here but they're happy to sit back and kind of be a fast follower now I think in some ways but I think a lot of it if these people are not going to listen your time and energy to do that as I say for me for 10 years of doing it it's just tiring yeah right and for me on this back to this committee thing there was too much Bank of England involvement and saying cryptocurrencies aren't back backed by anything a constant message throughout it all and there's just what else I mean I'd love to sit in a room with some of these people and just literally talk to them actually talk get them on the podcast and talk to him about this sort of stuff because and get it out there to the public because it's ridiculous um they we know this we have this conversation a lot of you want to come on to that or not yeah save it for coin Corner new okay my favorite ties into your agenda piece and it's because of the ignorance of these people they're just gonna do the ignorance well you know half of the MPS are from traditional banking signs so you can you know okay from what the conversation we've been having you can see where the ignorance is born from yeah just it's there is this is outside their realm there to make money for themselves and that's all they care about but if I should yeah I mean but you're not going to find any MPS as an MP you shouldn't as an MP you should care about the country no as an MP they're acting to make sure the government is acting appropriately when it comes for the country and that this is what this is the people yeah that's not what this is well these people are doing it's but you know it's it's putting it in check a bit if sunax he has to have some culpability something to be someone has to question you can't just let sooner go right we got it even made a global hope but the people are questioning that for me my head are not doing necessarily I'm not saying the MPS and I'm particularly picking on any particular MP here I'm talking about in general people in power not MPS like the conversations we've had with people they just care about making money next week and having the job next week they don't care about what's good for the world I guess and it's the mercenaries and missionaries thing you know we are trying to we are missionaries in some respects and these other people are mercenaries and unfortunately a lot of people in power are mercenaries um in that respect yeah anyway so it was a good treasury report um I like the process and maybe not the message but the process was a but the process wasn't it was [ __ ] no the process of of keeping the government in check the actual having the yeah the idea of the process was there the idea but the process they didn't listen to the industry the process not the message yeah but they didn't listen to the feedback yeah so the message so the process is broken the outcome the the process is broken in fact the process is in there it's the only thing the idea of the process is great but the process is broken because they didn't listen to something they got like they asked for they never have they never do I suppose selective there's a bias in everything and maybe there's biases people are involved with it and the people involved in it then the mercenaries that are doing what they think is best for themselves and the company they work for which whether that be a bank or where they are in control and Empower now they don't want to lose that so they push on their agenda so they have an agenda it needs to be more neutral maybe we should get more light-hearted news stories for this pod so it's not it's no such thing as well isn't it yeah your anger is society Daddy's angry at everyone I'm respecting Democratic processes normally it's daylight no sure do you want to how about we say this that finish on a lightheart no you guys just get out your system what you need to talk about what's the lighthouse I mean we should have had a lot more light-hearted notes in this well I feel like all right talk about what you want to talk about yesterday that's a conversation fueled by anger and then we'll go on frustration Maybe Road show with ifas which is leading to a lot of different meetings with other people where they ifas think we should be speak to these people like YZ so I had an extremely interesting meeting we didn't we go into a lot of these trying to educate people on bitcoin and not really knowing where our leaders are the interests of the people that we're meeting we just vaguely know who they work for um but we want to show them what send globally could do what Bitcoin what people are building on bitcoin applications of the lightning Network Etc you know strong base layer interoperability all that bits and pieces so we got into a meeting with someone I won't name the company um but they and we showed them send globally be careful what you say in the detail of that because they'll give the company away if you say too much details yeah George if I can get this get it right no I don't think we could but we didn't sign anything I don't know we didn't sign anything so but um so basically there are uh the part of their workflow would be uh as a traditional exchange um so basically helping people exchange currencies from one country to another um and they have a huge American client that can we name them no because I'll give it away a huge American client the biggest that they could ever be okay yeah we need to be vegan okay so they have a huge zombie client one big client and they are so um sensitive about losing that client that they would restrict markets close to countries um and we showed them big online and they said not in a billion years and he did say billion could they touch that because it would jeopardize what they're doing and one of the best comments was when I said we're gonna make Swift redundant yeah it was like let's just forget it now then because I don't want to we want Swift We don't want to make it they're so on board with Swift and their big American client that they can't touch any alternatives so we were like well that's quite short like this is quicker better cheaper Swift this is interoperable this is where it's going but they didn't like that because they make too much money so he was like no it's not in our wheelhouse is that we can only do everything to keep this current deal going um everything in their power to keep that particular client and do you have run it so you're like that's quite short-term thinking because they make too much money on it to try and do make a lot and the worst bit for me we we were very open and honest and as as were they and you did at one point say uh we are literally sat across the table from the enemy and this guy was laughed at night yeah and he was literally the enemy we are trying to bring them down yeah and we were disrupting their business model it was quite a civil to say what how Frosty that could have been yeah um because it's not often you go to a business meeting and call someone the enemy and the best way for you nobody loves Brothers Yeah you mentioned every meeting but the best bit we we didn't know who we were going into meeting they didn't know who they were coming to the meeting with uh and they actually thought we needed them and then straight away flips it around and was like no we don't need you we've you need us and it was then uh an interesting conversation should we say but when we asked um so what's your five-year 10-year plan you know what happens there's a couple of points of this that we touched on um and they're like we don't have one we make enough money now to not care is the short answer um they were just making the money now making enough and more than enough um to keep things taking over and they just wanted to eat yours did he say at one point that he just worked to make sure he had a job tomorrow and keep the money going in um and he didn't care about going having this Five-Year Plan or anything within this company and so we thought it was quite short-sighted in terms of incredibly short side but he didn't care because he will when the company sells they will he will probably retire and go and sit and do whatever and I understood he was doing the core of something that he knows is making a lot of money and didn't want to rock that boat whatsoever so we can't I understood that straight away you can't touch but you can't touch a bit like that's a lot but you're right that's a lot of businesses that is businesses that's not in the business of what we're in no that's what we're up against so we're not up against someone open-minded thinking actually the future of the exchange the 20 years time we need to be using it because he's thinking I'm not gonna be here in 20 years time I don't care we just smashed it and just like Danish actually sent a payment from his phone to someone in Kenya instantly for pennies and he said oh how are you gonna you're like does it only cost a penny a snide comment what did he say he said what you're gonna do your penny yeah this is something to make any money without just that Penny basically I was like I was just like I didn't buy it as just like it's just not big enough margin and some of these guys to Warrant their attention no I'm just like okay this is it's such a mercenary mentality but it was quite nice to see because if you if you're an investor in that company I'd be quite happy him running it because you know it's all about the ball it's all about the bottom line and that's all he cared about it's like protect his margins protect what he's got make sure that keeps running and keeps growing and because of who his client is I know that will keep growing and to who those end clients are yeah that what who that line is and what's happened there is causing so many problems in the world that obviously relate heavily to the book you can rambling on about the beginning um I don't think it was a ramble that is the worry that's the that's the and that's why it was the enemy that's mercenary like ultimate mercenary yeah I mean that's not even part of me admired him I was like oh fair enough yeah you admired him gamer start game wheelhouse yeah but that was because all he knew was that and that's what he knew and that's what he was he just wanted to make sure he had the job tomorrow that was what he was doing the company was making money he didn't care about the world he didn't care about the people he didn't care about anything like that yeah literally if you read the book God to great he's following those principles yes no 100 he's not definitely it's a great talking decades ahead of a company being here in decades time thinking about that he was talking about selling next year but it's a good point he isn't thinking but he has got it he has got he knows what his driver is they've got their little their economic driver they know what they've can be the best of the world that because they currently are trying to yeah without doing that yeah the passion and the why is probably likely zero passion and zero why but the wise I make money I suppose it is actually it's good to Great does look at like 30 year track records and he's already saying that they're not going to be around he's not going to be here in 30 yes good point so the company's not gonna be misses on that point um a bit what I just but that's what we're up against I think it was an interesting conversation because that's this kind of people ignorance was was the big thing um I said when we were showing the example and showing on my app how to do it and add it on the table showing them there's a couple other guys in the room they were like Lent over looking at it he was sat back leaning back on his chair clearly couldn't see the app so I said to him you know you sure you can see from there just trying to kick in a little bit and yeah wind him up but he was just he wasn't interested he didn't move forward he didn't care he was just like oh that's good about Bitcoin didn't know anything about lightning networks and like you know strike or how they can disrupt his current business he was didn't get openly sad he just didn't he wasn't interested in learning which just do you think he came away slightly concerned after uh he didn't care he's gonna he'll retire soon and disappear with lots of money and that's his life he's that's his life which is fine if people wouldn't do that that's that's not a problem I think what it highlights towards is um we're up against that kind of person in them kind of companies no we're trying to I'm not trying to say we're trying to take him down but we're trying to work them and educate him and move people on to um using Bitcoin for payment rails around the world and crash border payments they're the kind of companies and the people that you will have to go up against at some point or you have to integrate with at some point but these guys there's no there was no point in trying to educate him and convince him he was already no from the get-go and even if you started talking about it he switched off he didn't want us to level he didn't want to listen he's like what do you want from us with like nothing yeah you need us he was like well why am I here then it was like yeah I'm not saying he wasn't as blunt as that uh we called him in the enemy he was civilizer it was yeah in that respects it was it was yeah I I think he thoroughly enjoyable I want more of them it was enjoyable because of what the conversation ended up being and who that person and Company was it was it was interesting so we've continued our Quest and we're lining up more keep knocking on these doors meet him with the Enemy the Roadshow Contin we have to learn and it was incredible people talk about like building on bitcoin building on Lightning this is fundamentally important as well it's like spreading that message but people do lots of books education content on Twitter but one of the better ways or or a good way we're finding is get in front of these people and just have that chat and we can use coin corn as a platform and the products we have knowing that they do help a lot of Industries so they just don't know about them to as well as show and highlight those products just to educate people as well yeah so you are you know adding value there to the old Bitcoin ethosystem by having the conversations but it's not doing it publicly we're doing it I since I said about replacing Swift is reaction not in a billion years it just jumps all over the world we're not going to Swift out we will love Swift it's like what yeah it literally they were here they were here with at the other end pollution did you start off with like see you on the battlefield well like we call the meetings you know a cool little line it wasn't even that short you know 20 minutes sure I'd say from what we're counting for I think so very enjoyable very shaking hand it's like you can shake the hardest the other guy was nice I think he was actually you know why because he was commercial he was younger interested he's going to be here in 20 years time still working away doing this stuff well every IFA that we've had worked that we've had a conversation with has said there's only jobs going yeah yeah that's quite telling yeah yeah which is true anyway cool come on it is I mean that was good we're not in Miami why are we not in Miami Molly we've got Miami today by the way so all right yeah sure Dave why are we not in Miami because we are releasing anything from Miami you would sign us off to go to Miami that's the whole point busy I think we're just busy we've got a lot we've got a lot of stuff going on um I think uh I would rather spend the thousands of pounds it takes to get money on something else last year I think last year was good to go meet everybody and do all that sort of side things but save that for Dubai we're juggling too many things at the minute to go out there and spend any time of resource on that the minute and I think what we've got going on in the minute the background is just enough oh so because this could be the year I finally get mandrix bakalava but yeah I think he's going to get some foreign Molly for those who don't know Danny and Ricky West the back lover yeah in Miami yeah yeah pretty good got me some got a photo it's in the hotel she's got it yeah and it is literally in the whole message follow me some shop bought stuff on the way maybe next year I'll be interested to see how popular it is this year in them I haven't seen that many people talking about it you know no I'm not getting these Vibes oh [ __ ] because I'm not there um Oxford Oxford City they got promoted to the national league for the first time in the history well League tip the will be conference one oh it was good the um it was it BBC no not BBC BT Sport yeah we're tweeting videos about it because it was filmed did we have tickets to the game why don't we didn't we do because we have we had a season we have season passes on winter because what did we do with this well no we have them we just it's not that easy to get over is it we've given the season tickets away right um to get together this one would be caught right but yeah we didn't get it unfortunately get too busy but it was busy there was like three and a half thousand people there the problem which is the highest turnout being in alaman isn't it a little bit yeah so yeah but you can't even reliably get off the island a bit of fogging again no planes don't go it's part of the charm mango missed four flights to get done that's a man girls he was in Amsterdam um congrats to Watford well done guys that's awesome the coverage as well was great because it showed the Bitcoin logo on the back of their shirts to like I mean the BTS and if you've got your micro yeah yeah magnifying glass out you might be able to see coin corner on there as well only we've got your magnifying glass Dave come on you know the whole agenda for making the Bitcoin logo pick so yeah congrats then that's awesome questions up the hoops uh are we gonna go through all these three questions because I've only got a lightning one as well I've not read this it's just one or optional three questions that is a long question that's a long question okay question time so after listening so this was last week after listening to today's Bitcoin as part do you have any advice or suggestions on how the general British Bitcoin Bros could help get the conversation start in terms of new orange pill businesses Etc given that most of us aren't sales or marketers I know that one I've mentioned it previously I mostly get an eye roll and an instant disregard so I generally leave it at that or how about a little of us from the Bitcoin meetup groups come to bitcoin Island and you can give us to hear training on how to sell the good word to the good people's if it helps any of us it'll help all of us um and there's one simple way in my head is don't go and say do you want to accept Bitcoin oh okay I thought we could all say what I think I've got one as well we could say at the same time because at the same time you're in terms solve a problem so so yeah that that would matter so don't go in just say you want to accept Bitcoin because half the time they don't know what it is and there's there's loads of issues with it the simplest way is to know the business and go in saying we can solve any problems um that is probably our most successful route um and we don't go with A Hard Sell he's going in saying do you want to accept Bitcoin because the reality is you're gonna get knocked back 99.9 of the time probably um whereas if you know the business understand how it works understand where they Source things from do they Source it from foreign countries can they make view Bitcoin usage there for cross-border payments um do they have spare cash sat in there accounts that you know they don't know what to do with um could they put Bitcoin on the balance sheet it's understanding knowing who that company is and what they do um that is probably the best way in my head uh and at the minute I think this is one thing as well impatient patience is um kind of key like you can't expect to just go around and already build all these coffees because you wouldn't you don't understand the business just by walking into them no like like you say you've got to build a relationship so it's to take the patience and it's a chicken in an egg scenario is is the patience bit where you can onboard a cafe and a coffee shop and we know that we've got loads of them on board but they're not going to get regular orders because there's not enough people using Bitcoin for the payment side of it so it's a chicken and egg scenario where you then lose people you might onboard 100 and buy you know three years time there's only 10 of them still running and taking Bitcoin orders and we've seen that happen over and over again at every cycle with the Bull and Bear markets so if you solve a problem for them they will continue to use Bitcoin because it solves the problem if you go and just say add this as an additional payment method that will potentially slowly die out over time but as time goes by them 10 keep growing and then 10 become 20 and then 20 become 30 and so on so they then there will be more places to pay with Bitcoin and then there will be more people paying with Bitcoin at these points once more ball card style things crop up and more usage is is there and more Challenger Banks integrate Bitcoin into as a payment option um that's what I'm saying patience that's going to take time to get there and I'm talking years not and even decades not like months so yasco and orange pill where you can but it's so much more powerful than my orange pill where there's a problem not just trying to force something on someone depends on the type of business as well doesn't it because I think a lot of Bitcoin is trying orange pill cafes and restaurants and those places especially in the UK and from my understanding is that UK businesses don't the Bitcoin doesn't solve many issues for UK business it's not like businesses elsewhere in the world that like in El Salvador where they've got the issues with that I think the big selling point for like the bridge to bitcoin guys and stuff that are doing it they say like you know they'll get more customers because and you'll get a better Market you'll get a bit Market yeah you will get some some customers coming and using it for Bitcoin but it won't be masses uh unfortunately um so the time and effort to Orange build these guys and potentially give them a bad experience you may be better turn in the focus to can you find ones where um here's a really random one that um has cropped up recently on our radar um a client in the UK that is a fish shop that buys fish from all around tropical fish but they buy tropical fish from all around the world I know but people are paying that and they struggle to make international transfers to these countries where they're buying tropical fish from only how much people are buying topical Traditions those same people are complaining about the cost to live in then they need to cut back on their tropical fish get a goldfish you know here's an example that's an example of a business that would find you would solve a problem with because they struggle making international payments to the Philippines Vietnam and so on when India and I think commonly places some South American ones um whereas now they can then use Bitcoin to make that payment to these people in these countries which means you've solved the problem for them that they're going to use on a regular basis and they're going to continue to do that they may it may not be this is what I was trying to say to people as well it's not just because Bitcoin isn't being used at your coffee shop down the road doesn't mean in the background it's not being used for like supply chain and stuff and which is where we're seeing most Usage Now is um behind the scenes supply chain cross-border um so that's I don't tropical fish seller is a perfect example of how you can go and solve someone's a small small businesses problem and making international payments I guess another thing there's no on that sort of thing there is is just general online e-commerce stores that ship worldwide people paying from different countries around the world like if you can get them online accepting Bitcoin then they're usually a bit more receptive to it than of coffee shops yeah I think the problem you've still got with that though is um at the minute there's not enough people willing to pay with Bitcoin so one thing it does open up so El Salvador where we know we're on banks you might open a new market there to our Salvadorans that want to buy your products and now they can use Bitcoin to pay so it does open up smart people fish yeah um from the UK um but it's still um you've lost my train of thought now yes oh find a problem solve it good question though very good question right how lightning scales do you want me to pull that question up it's from Joe wasn't it yeah right on Twitter tonight well uh no I posted that it's from a year ago that so was it yeah the tweets from yoga but I just wanted to pull it up again because it add the numbers in which was oh okay I'm useful for this conversation okay so we had a question from somebody somebody questioned it with Joe Nakamoto and he passed it on asked if we could help answer this um just rough do I have to read the whole thing just enough um trying to see where this starts okay scenario so great the scenario is 12.5 adoption I'll say 1 billion people clearly Layer Two Solutions like lightning will be required in order for daily transactions and day-to-day living however what I don't understand is how there will be enough capacity on the main chain for widespread adoption even with everyone using lightning for 99.9 of transactions do you want me to read the next bit as well Bitcoin can only make around 4 000 transactions per block or 2 million transactions per year then that means with one billion people using Bitcoin they will on average only be able to make one transfer between their Cold Storage Bitcoin savings account and their lightning spend account spend once every five years and that's only at 12.5 adoption what am I missing here lots of things um I think here it's hard to answer this question because there's a lot of it's not hard it's very easy but um there's a lot to take into consideration I guess it's more saying so one very big obvious thing is custodial and non-custodial I know where's Bitcoin is one everyone to be non-custodial look after it for yourself and that's I guess a big a big point of Bitcoin realistically we know ourselves more numbers we know all the other companies out there and their numbers 95 of our customers um 90 to 95 generally um will custody with us rather than withdraw and so you only ended up with five to ten percent of people in a non-custodial manner um and even in that non-custodial manner I don't know how many of them actually would use lightning then for example payments in a non-custodial manner um most of them could still use us for them payments for example so a massive part of that is 90 of people going forwards could still operate on a custodial service like ourselves to make the lining payments I know people will argue that's you know no what Bitcoins for and you want to make a non-custodial and so on which then comes on to the more technical scalability pieces um which I think Zach has kindly prepared a couple of sacrification we're gonna pedestal here Danny Shook this on me minutes before the pond um well it's just it's worth knowing obviously Bitcoin is the base layer and then lightning is built as a way to scale Bitcoin and then there's several stuff basically not on top of anything but like several improvements that can be made for lightning to scale as well because it is at its current state it's all theoretical how much it can scale isn't it really it's infinitely infinitely scalable but I think because of what he's because of the block size capacity on bitcoin base layer you can only open so many channels for lightning to be able to yeah yeah so it's the channel opens which is how do you scale the channels so so a few initial stuff that's already there and working maybe just not is not adopted as much yet due to it only being available in a few lining implementations um batch opening channels as the back as a batch opening your own channels so if I have a lining node and I want to open a channel most people I want to open 10 channels most people do that as one on chain transaction for each with 10 on change on 10 on chain transactions but you can actually just batch them all into one meaning the on-chain footprint of that whole 10 Channel open is a lot smaller might end up at like the equivalent of two for example the number exactly yeah I don't know the numbers but it says that is a very simple thing that you could do as an individual running a lightning node right now you can do that and there can also be Services eventually that's what we've spoken about as well yeah operating a service that if you want a lightning Channel and some liquidity opening you come towards say right I want some liquidity in a channel to you guys we batch at him with you know 20 of our customers into one transaction and so you end up with 20 Channel opens within one transaction effectively which would then help scale and open up channels to people that um they don't even have to do a Bitcoin transaction yourself they just get um light and liquidity to their node and they can crack on so that's one way of scaling lining already available another one already available is dual funded channels so that is currently available in uh call lightning eclair and LDK are adding it and that is essentially when I'm opening a channel same opening a Channel with you Dave traditionally I would put the funds up because I'm opening the channel so there'll be one Bitcoin on my side but actually if and then if you wanted a channel on your side to pop funds up you'd have to open another Channel I'm not opening a channel that big with you okay Savvy two on-chain transactions but you can now do what's called dual funding so we can both pull up oh each side of our liquidity into one Unchained transaction um so half the transactions yeah you need to create your channels basically so you're creating one channel or putting liquidity on both sides yeah um rather than creating two transactions so straight away that's a Harvard so you can already see the even the bits we've mentioned here which are all the basic kind of innovations that are kind of they're available in some ways um you're already starting to see that you've gone from talking about trying to do seven billion Channel opens or out of Europe maybe you know 200 million Channel opens because you've already dwindled it down to that amount that's not even taken into account the non-custodial and custodial yes and stuff like your funded channels it helps with um the liquidity issues people out early on how to get inbound straight away you have to open a channel and send all your Bitcoins to the other side whereas this you just have it straight away if the other party is willing to pull up some funds so they're two scaling methods that are available right now they're just probably not that adopted very well ux is yeah it's very complicated to manually be doing this yeah but as technology improves yeah as we improve and innovate you'll this is what I'm saying about the service we actually spoke about that service for the batch in the channel side of things like a year two years ago is it or something and was looking to potentially offer that but you realize the market is not quite there ready for you but as the market comes then we'll introduce these things has it got um a mirror of the you know the scalability of the internet again like the old adage of how similar it is in in terms of how the internet was first created although this college just connecting those computers and someone was just keeping a list yeah and then eventually they built on that and made efficiencies and how one great DNS yeah and all the they came in to make that on a manageable Network yeah it's improvements along the wing yeah definitely yeah massively part of that um it's still very very very early online another good question it's just yeah I can understand why people go at a high level just it does look like kid right yeah you need it billions of these channels and yeah you haven't got enough in the blocks to do it but you're right and yourself good look at it you just say all right okay scales yeah there's there is other one there's some other yeah I was gonna go channels um stuff that's in development so not available yet the likes of Channel factories which is probably the biggest one uh so that's essentially I wrote down a good way of explaining essentially a group of users pulling those pulling all your full funds together in like a big multi-sec and then you can open channels but those channels don't have to go Unchained okay so therefore that reduces the on-chain that that can reduce the on-chain size of a fee by 90 if Channel factories were used to like 100 people you could theoretically open one big pull all your funds into one big multi-sig open channels between each other off chain but using Bitcoin on confirmed transactions and then you can always go on chain if there's any kind of issue or settlement no I couldn't tell so I just smile at you then because you know you're you're airport analogy yeah I was just like her I was just kept thinking about all right does that mean loads of people own the airport like you know like how do you how does that fit into scalability of the airport because it there's no question we have had before maybe like it's just like okay how's Danny going to put this into that you know well it's a well-rounded analogy but if you've got a scalability in there I was just thinking you could maybe if you did like a multiple owners at airports with a private plane like in private playing with capacity of 100 and you all pay a little bit to be in this private plane and go wherever the hell you want yeah kind of but you're not really you're not really flying anywhere like yeah it's not to think about now but it's like in transaction isn't it almost in some ways so you can yeah to be fair to you that is still the best analogy for lightning Network because it's the airplane one yeah but a lot of people have made it understandable so maybe if because that sounds very complex from like okay oh there's lots of it sort of I am but um okay put these non-tackers out there these guys one I just saw them glaze over yeah okay but for me I understand it but maybe they need an airport analogy or ingrained in there yeah um see that channel the splicing did you switch on Splash yeah sorry and we're literally going to go for everyone well these are all the time things that are generally little well times I've been going we're basically the same that's half 11. the ground for an hour and twice that's yeah peak time splicing is another thing being worked on it's kind of similar to submarine swaps but it basically allows you to transfer funds from on-chain into a lightning channel so you don't have to close the channel you can basically add more funds in or vice versa cool so there is lots of things being built I know there's then like the um e-cash stuff as well that means trying to build around so you can um kind of go in and out of using line into then go into ecash uh so cashew Cali's thing um that will allow you to then make transactions via ecash well that apparently is custodial so it goes back to your first point yeah yeah most of it might be custodial um so it'll be like it'd be like that's almost like let's say coin Corner customers being able to transact with each other that don't go over anything but actually if we've already got channels open and can trans out by lightning on the customers well might as well transacts or light installation um or we just change the database things like you do on PayPal sending to each other um but yeah that's then the custodial and it's not using the Bitcoin Network really to do it we also there's also the unknown of we don't know if lining is the one that will scale Bitcoin payment channels might not be the one yeah what's it called yeah yeah um he's I'm trusted to see what his proposal is done to start seeing that yeah we probably no um that he thinks this is going to be better solves all the problems lightning has and a new layer too and so lightning might be here blazing the trail for scaling Bitcoin but it actually might be a different solution that becomes the dominant one and scales it okay although it is even the only lightning in its current capacity with them particular bits we've touched on there it's already scalable to the globe in in that respect um even in an August allele capacity there is options to do that and scale to a decent scale um yes it has other issues and other things in there as well but yeah ability is there now it's one of those you want to see it don't you it's all theoretical yeah I want to see it again is the capacity for me is irrelevant it's the volume of transactions yeah so you can have one Bitcoin but capacity but you could do 24 Bitcoin yeah a day because you use 10 bucks yeah and how many on-chain to save by doing that yeah yeah and I think it's scalability we've seen already in the last two or three years we've definitely see it because our usage of lightning um oh yeah 50 50 Harmony 50 on chain transactions 50 line so we've talked 50 of our on-train transactions now off chain and allowing Bitcoin to put that block space up for other people um so lightning has enabled scaling at a smaller scale yeah yeah um but that scale is increasing I think over time and I think it has to take time as well if we if lightning onboarded 12.5 of the world right now I'd be pretty worried yeah yeah yeah yeah but nothing happens like that everything yeah so you've got to give it time cool classic that answers the tank sack good question thoroughly answered oh my five minutes of prep yeah thank you I mean we're putting a lot of Reliance on that Ai and Mikey let's think of that geez we've had people outside like cut this chair every time I move this screen I think I'll get the chair out you don't think it will uh it does I'd listen back did everyone listen back no it was quite funny in a few spots I think it's all Bali yeah but you laughed one time down in the AI kind of glitch and he sounded like it was a demon left oh nice yeah so you can hear it tries to figure out what's going on so it might have trouble with this chair extra surprise so it's good though yeah it was good cool right thank you guys Long Afternoon peace [Music] foreign